The advantages of fat

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by NEETzschean, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    This would be tragic if I actually gave a damn

    It's all on him if he wants to sabotage his career

     
  2. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Member Full Member

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    After his demolition of AJ, he was saying that he wanted to look like the "Mexican AJ" for the rematch. This was utterly absurd considering he had proved definitively that looking like a bodybuilder gets you nowhere in pro boxing. Ruiz was clearly insecure about the aesthetic-related criticism he was receiving from masses of braindead idiots who don't know sh*t about boxing. Thankfully he was too lazy to bother taking this on board but he went past diminishing returns into slow as molasses territory by packing another 15 pounds onto one of his career heaviest weigh-ins. This gave AJ the perfect opportunity to "Parker" him, 30 pounds heavier and less trained than he was against Parker.

    I wouldn't be worried about what Ruiz is saying though. The top-down camera angle is deliberately distortive and he's probably used editing software as well. I seriously doubt he'll be below of 250's against Arreola.
     
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  3. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Member Full Member

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    "It is not bias against fat to say this amount of body fat is very bad for your heart, puts other major organs under great stress, is correlated with high blood pressure, diabetes, & certain types of cancer."

    This is true for fat people generally and fat athletes after they retire but not to fat athletes in their prime:
    This content is protected
    .

    "Ali is not by any rational definition a natural CW"

    Ali weighed under the cruiserweight limit of 200 lbs for his first 15 fights as a pro and competed in the Olympics as a light heavyweight, aka under 178.5 pounds. And although the cruiser limit today is 200 lbs, modern cruisers weigh in at something like 199.75 before rehydrating and otherwise packing on another 10-25 pounds for when they get in the ring. So Ali in his prime would be a small-medium sized cruiser today and he only weighed a similar amount to small modern heavyweights after he packed on a lot of fat in his later years. If an opponent with the later Ali's body was fighting AJ today, people would say he's "chubby" and "out of shape". Ali is at least a weight category below the likes of modern medium-sized heavyweights and two weight categories below the biggest guys in the division. The minimum limit for heavyweight back then was lower than the female heavyweight minimum limit these days and there was no cruiserweight division, so the majority of Ali's bouts could easily qualify as cruiserweight bouts today. Tommy Burns was considered a heavyweight 100 years ago but it would be absurd to call him a "natural heavyweight", these days he wouldn't even be a natural light heavyweight.

    "Yet it is neither fair nor logical to assume he did absent evidence."

    It's not illogical to assume that a top athlete who's naturally a skinny sprinter is juicing to put on as much as 40 pounds of muscle as he did against Takam. Mike Tyson claimed that all top athletes are juicing and even if this isn't technically true, I suspect most of them are. At the top there are fine margins and by forgoing an advantage you allow your opponents to gain the advantage over you, which can be decisive. Canelo for example has only been popped once (for which there has been no real penalty: another incentive to juice) but is it likely he was only using once? Or is it more likely that top athletes have ways and means of getting away with it more often than not? Many of the top heavyweights in the division including Povetkin, Whyte, Ortiz and Fury have had question marks over them concerning PEDs and this is surely just the tip of the iceberg.

    The fact that top athletes like Fedor and many of the top contenders during the Klitschko era liked to keep a higher % of body fat suggests that it has certain advantages that muscle doesn't have, greater shock absorption being one of them. At heavyweight, being able to take a punch well is more crucial than in any of the lower weight divisions where fighters carry far less punch power.

    "There is doubt-it is completely uncertain-that his defeat by Ruiz was "many times" more humiliating"

    I agree it's uncertain whether it's 2x, 5x, 10x etc. more humiliating but there's no question that it was a lot more humiliating. Being beaten by a guy who's toned and muscular who you're expected to beat is one thing but being beaten by a ball of fat who looks to the naked eye like a "big fat bum" has to be a hell of a lot worse, especially when you're the poster-boy of physical fitness lol.
     
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  4. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very interesting thread, and some very well thought out, intellectual replies.

    Good stuff!
     
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  5. Arminius1

    Arminius1 Member Full Member

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    George Foreman in part 2 of his run certainly used his fat to his advantage.
     
  6. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    His training methods helped too.
     
  7. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Watch that chin of his turn to glass now that he's been on a shedding flab/gaining muscle 'improvement' program
     
  8. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    NEETzschean, I cut out your comment that I replied to, so my long post could fit.


    I appreciate the debate & just ask that you are more exercise more intellectual rigor on some occasions-you did not respond to some of my specific thoughts on Ali & divisions, & sometimes you present things as true without evidence or based upon speculation.


    In the Sumo case, even if you were right about them, that very particular circumstance cannot establish that fat athletes in general are not prone to all the health problems I enumerated-& others besides heart disease, cancers, failure of major organs, diabetes, high blood pressure... Such as back, knees & other joints failing.

    Also IF something is fairly or extremely or significantly unhealthy, like smoking or PEDs, the effects may take some years to register.
    That folks do not die or suffer grievously while a Professional athlete says nothing about the damage that is incurred & accumulating.

    Also that article says nothing suggesting whether they are "prime".
    But that is trivial compared to the fact that you are extrapolating from a very delimited claim-that Sumo wrestlers are not unhealthy-to without evidence saying this applies to all "prime* athletes.

    It seems rational that their intense activity forestalls most of the ill effects of obesity via fat distribution + effects on hormone levels, insulin, where fat & glucose are processed...
    However this is only done while they are young, & then they become inactive & lose all the benefits.
    Also that tremendous amount of body fat is bad for the joints, puts some stress on the major organs, joints & skeleton.

    While there IS a real effect while they are extremely active-although modern sumos tend to make fast food runs after their anaerobic training then crash, they may have a healthier diet than most who are morbidly obese...
    This comment after the article says it well:

    "The average life span for a sumo wrestler is 57. But yep, they die healthy.
    Fat is fat, madam. The extra-weight overburdens your heart, your liver, your lungs, your muscles and all that shorten your life. More, even, exercising hard when you’re that fat is another fact that can bring you heart attacks or lethal strokes".

    Also most live in a nation where the people overall are healthy & live longer than in the US.
    Best you can say is that THEIR pretty extreme exercise & decent diet can mitigate the effects of obesity.
    But it is neither very fitness oriented-no significant aerobic capacity is or can be developed at that size, & flexibility is limited...
    And it is not physically or psychologically sustainable through middle, let alone old age.
    Maybe if they lost a ton of weight when they retired & stayed active, they would remain nearly as healthy as the average person.
    But gaining that much weight & maintaining it for years is ill advised & tends to wreck havoc with the metabolism.


    Regarding Ali, you did not seem to notice the central thing I was saying.
    That you cannot use what has developed to be most common in the last very few decades as an indication of what HW is.
    Rationally if HW means over 200, if a man is lean or not overweight at that weight, he is a true HW.

    Many guys use, although sometimes there is a false +/something contaminated is ingested.
    But it is neither fair nor meaningful to say that because cheating & lying may well procure an advantage, that everyone who develops muscle must cheat!
    Besides that it will not work for everybody, many have principles, ethics, & fear of the consequences of being caught, punished & exposed.

    Some say most everyone cheats: that is as ridiculous as the naive argument that nobody NOT caught ever used PEDs!



    That he would be small for today does not change that.
    What HAS changed is what is HW, thus less what is CW today *no longer* is a HW.
    But Ali at a very lean 210-215 in his prime-without being so tall, nor needing to artificially "bulk up" with muscle weight-absolutely is a True HW.

    That CWs tend to average or sometimes exceed what he weighed in his prime because a lot of weight draining & re-hydrating is permitted does not change that at all.

    Also Ali was only as or nearly as fat as many modern HWs (less so that a Ruiz or Butterbean) in some bouts.
    Again, he was 227 in Manilla. Does he look "fat" to you there?
    He was very fit, he & Frazier set the HW *record* for most punches exchanged in a brutal war in extreme heat, & had more but not nearly excessive BF as he aged-& a bit more muscle.

    You also repeated & elaborated on the same information about how light he was early in his career.
    But again you missed what I wrote.
    What he weighed as an amateur in his teens, or for a short time as a pro in his early 20's, does not mean that this was the fully mature man.
    I recall Tua weighing 201 in one bout. Despite his bone structure & all that muscle he soon developed head to toe, I guess you could take that fight, say then he was lighter than most all CWs same day, & say he is not a real HW-which would be absurd.

    It makes no sense to say because Joshua was fairly skinny that he could not naturally develop that much muscle.
    It was likely less than 40 lbs. of muscle-since his top weight was slightly under that differential, & mainly I'll bet he was not exactly as lean...
    But many natural athletes & non-athletes, especially with rigorous weight training, gain up to that much *when compared to when they are very young & skinny*.

    Hell, use Ali as an example.
    He was under 178.5 in the Olympics, WITHOUT the benefit of 36 hour (or day) before weigh ins.
    In his '60's prime he was almost precisely 35 lbs. heavier, & very lean!
    An again in the 70's when FIT he could be up to the upper 220's, not as lean, but not at all fat.
    An this is WITHOUT any weight training, or as much height or a bigger frame than A.J.!

    Again you need *evidence* that someone juiced.
    Circumstantial evidence could be cited IF Joshua got beyond what a man can naturally, or put on muscle suspiciously fat.

    Being fatter MAY grant many more power or punch resistance.
    Much of this depends upon training, how quickly it is gained, natural body types, etc.
    We agree that subjective standards of Body Beautiful may not improve you, or be the best build for your sport.
    ...And likely you agree that even at HW, a maximum of ~ 1/3 body fat works very effectively-& only for some.
    While generally ~ 25% BF is more advisable WHEN carrying some extra fat is useful, right?
    Which would define Old Foreman.

    Lastly, again likely AJ found losing to a fat boy more humiliating. ;-)
    But we do not know for sure, or if so, how much of a difference it makes.
    And thanks for the debate, but it seems you *agree* with my thoughts that 268 lbs. was excessive.
    Again at 235 lbs. he would likely be at that 25% BF.
    Even IF he came in between these two figures...

    He would gain endurance, work-rate, & foot speed.
    So while Ruiz's game (& pocketbook at HW) benefits from being larger-when if he had a not low but much more odertae 15-20% BF & de/rehydrated he could theoretically be a CW...

    We can see that it is neither realistic for him to achieve, & unlike most guys with his lean boy mass, he benefits from being overweight.
    Even though he must fight bigger guys who are better in absolute terms.
    But gaining fat is useful-only up to a certain delimited point.[/QUOTE]
     
  9. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Member Full Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    After Sumo wrestlers retire they have all of the same problems that regular morbidly obese people have because they stop training but usually don't stop eating excessively. I expect though that fat athletes of all stripes are healthy while they are still training regularly. And my argument was primarily about career performance, not optimal health after you've stopped training regularly or retired.

    Someone already posted a picture of Ali in the thread in what I believe was the first Frazier fight and he looks chubby compared to the likes of AJ or Klitschko. And throwing a lot of punches doesn't make you not fat. You know who recently broke the all-time heavyweight record for thrown punches? Arreola and Kownacki lmao, with 50% more than Ali-Frazier despite being far bigger and fatter. Even at his absolute lightest as a 19 year old, David Tua (a very short heavyweight) was still over 200 lbs. Ali on the other hand was 178 at 18 and competed at light-heavyweight. Even the now mature light heavyweight Beterbiev competed at 200.6 pounds in the amateurs. Ali was considered a heavyweight in the time where a former super-middleweight like Floyd Patterson was considered a heavyweight, who indeed did weigh over 200 lbs in at least one of his fights. The fact is that while Ali was considered a heavyweight in the 60's and 70's, in his prime he was lighter than big cruiserweights today. So by today's standards, Ali is not a genuine heavyweight, just as Patterson and Tommy Burns are not.

    I don't need hard evidence to believe that AJ is juicing. It's always more likely that when dealing with a cash cow like AJ, these things will be covered up and he'll have plenty of notice before his tests. I suspect that nearly all top athletes cheat or they give up a key competitive edge. I also suspect this is a big reason why David Haye's body started breaking down in his early 30's.
     
  10. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    .[/QUOTE]

    I appreciate the clarification about health & obesity, & I will answer the parts of my long post you chose to address.

    The article you cited made the claim about Sumos, not even all fat athletes.
    I am saying I believe their rigorous training helps them a lot. Especially with clearing bad prducts from the blood stream & via where fat is stored.
    But by no stretch of the imagination would Sumos be healthy for life-or are very healthy during their career-because that does not stop all the ill effects of being morbidly obese, though it seems to help a lot.
    Plus again, their lack of flexibility & especially very limited cardiovascular capacity & unavoidable joint & tendon related problems makes being so fat problematic.
    But if someone was just overweight or mldly obese & is so active, they may well be healthier than most non-overweight folks!

    What IS a genuine HW is not properly defined by what is most common today.
    Still today, anyone over 200 lbs. is a HW.
    And any common sense definition of "natural" HW should include being that weight without being at all overweight.
    Without having to put on nearly all the muscle you can.

    I never suggested thowing many punches makes you not heavy.
    I know about the record for most punches thrown-& that fight broke the record of Tua & Ike.
    Please do show me the punch stats that show me it was 1/2 again as many as FOTC though.
    Punches landed would be even better.

    We long established that peak Ali was lighter than big CWs today. I was saying that.
    But again-& you never addressed this-what someone is when very young, 19 or early 20's, is not an acurate way to define what they NATURALLY are.
    If Ali could become that size absent evn touching weights or looking bulky in any way, you better believe he is a natural HW!
    It is just that those today are BIG HWs.

    Ali was not at all fat at 215 in FOTC.
    In Manilla he was not fat at 227.
    He was not as trim as in the 1960's.
    SHOW the photos of him in these fights-granted he got chubby for several later bouts-& we can easily see he had less BF-sometimes dramatically less-that many overweight HWs in recent years.
    And many HWs today Arreola Kownaski numerous others ARE overweight in the ring.
    Others like those you cite are lean & often heavily muscled.

    I strongly object to you insisting AJ is not juicing based upon pure (& unreasonable) speculation, & zero evidence.
    And I am not especially a fan of him.
    You ignored the *facts* that Ali gained 4 lb.s less than A.J., near as I can tell, from Olympics to just his PRIME, let alone the 1970's.
    And less as a % of body weight.

    There is no indication that he or any prominent boxer is informed of random tests as a matter of course.
    Nor can you assume it fairly at ALL absent any evidence.
    There is endless evidence that someone of his height & frame could have reached his max size naturally.
    Assuming guilt is as irrational as delusional folks who believe nobody who is never popped ever used, lol!

    He may not have, but it is wrong-in both senses-to assume he or anyone is absent even decent circumstantial evidence.
     
  11. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Member Full Member

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    I appreciate the clarification about health & obesity, & I will answer the parts of my long post you chose to address.

    The article you cited made the claim about Sumos, not even all fat athletes.
    I am saying I believe their rigorous training helps them a lot. Especially with clearing bad prducts from the blood stream & via where fat is stored.
    But by no stretch of the imagination would Sumos be healthy for life-or are very healthy during their career-because that does not stop all the ill effects of being morbidly obese, though it seems to help a lot.
    Plus again, their lack of flexibility & especially very limited cardiovascular capacity & unavoidable joint & tendon related problems makes being so fat problematic.
    But if someone was just overweight or mldly obese & is so active, they may well be healthier than most non-overweight folks!

    What IS a genuine HW is not properly defined by what is most common today.
    Still today, anyone over 200 lbs. is a HW.
    And any common sense definition of "natural" HW should include being that weight without being at all overweight.
    Without having to put on nearly all the muscle you can.

    I never suggested thowing many punches makes you not heavy.
    I know about the record for most punches thrown-& that fight broke the record of Tua & Ike.
    Please do show me the punch stats that show me it was 1/2 again as many as FOTC though.
    Punches landed would be even better.

    We long established that peak Ali was lighter than big CWs today. I was saying that.
    But again-& you never addressed this-what someone is when very young, 19 or early 20's, is not an acurate way to define what they NATURALLY are.
    If Ali could become that size absent evn touching weights or looking bulky in any way, you better believe he is a natural HW!
    It is just that those today are BIG HWs.

    Ali was not at all fat at 215 in FOTC.
    In Manilla he was not fat at 227.
    He was not as trim as in the 1960's.
    SHOW the photos of him in these fights-granted he got chubby for several later bouts-& we can easily see he had less BF-sometimes dramatically less-that many overweight HWs in recent years.
    And many HWs today Arreola Kownaski numerous others ARE overweight in the ring.
    Others like those you cite are lean & often heavily muscled.

    I strongly object to you insisting AJ is not juicing based upon pure (& unreasonable) speculation, & zero evidence.
    And I am not especially a fan of him.
    You ignored the *facts* that Ali gained 4 lb.s less than A.J., near as I can tell, from Olympics to just his PRIME, let alone the 1970's.
    And less as a % of body weight.

    There is no indication that he or any prominent boxer is informed of random tests as a matter of course.
    Nor can you assume it fairly at ALL absent any evidence.
    There is endless evidence that someone of his height & frame could have reached his max size naturally.
    Assuming guilt is as irrational as delusional folks who believe nobody who is never popped ever used, lol!

    He may not have, but it is wrong-in both senses-to assume he or anyone is absent even decent circumstantial evidence.[/QUOTE]
    Sumo's are an incredibly extreme example which prove the rule for all other fat athletes, most of which are far less fat. The average weight of Sumo wrestlers has increased from 125kg in 1969, to 150kg in 1991, to 166kg in 2019 and the average sumo wrestler today is 6'1. In other words, they make Ruiz at his worst look slim. While they are engaged in intense training they can keep the fat away from the organs, just below the skin. But after they stop training they quickly become extremely unhealthy because they stop exercising but don't stop eating like sumo wrestlers. But my essay was never about long-term health, it was about practicality in combat sports.

    According to compubox, Arreola and Kownacki combined to throw 2172 punches, with 667 landed, while Ali and Frazier threw 1524 punches with 708 landed. Arreola and Kownacki threw 442 more punches than Tua and Ike. This is quite incredible because they have a combined weight of 510 pounds, while Ali and Frazier were essentially a weight category lower with a combined 420.5 pounds. Usually smaller fighters can throw far more punches than bigger men but boxing has undoubtedly moved on since the archaic 70's.

    This picture of Ali was already posted in the thread:
    This content is protected


    Men like Chisora and Arreola have naturally huge frames, they are fat but they are genuine heavyweights. By modern standards, Ali was a cruiser who larded himself up into a heavyweight. If Ali is a heavyweight, why isn't Floyd Patterson? He also started a couple of divisions below and managed to fatten himself up over 200 pounds. Anyway, we agree that Ali is smaller than big cruisers today so there's no argument here as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't have a lot of data on AJ's weight from his amateur days, I read 225 lbs somewhere but that's all I can remember. He was almost certainly pumping a lot of weights back then. Unlike Ali though, AJ has always competed at heavyweight and at his lightest he was just under 230 lbs as a pro. He managed to roid up to 254 for the Takam fight, which is his heaviest weight. I don't care about giving athletes "the benefit of the doubt", that just seems like being a sucker to me. Boxing is a sport run by gangters ffs lol, it always has been. You only have to read about some of the recent boxing controversies to know that. The majority of them are using because it would be insane to give up a potentially crucial advantage. "Ethics" barely come into it and getting caught is less of a risk for guys like Floyd Mayweather, who are cash cows with a lot of clout in the industry. And even if like Canelo they are caught, they get a slap on the wrist at most. This gives guys like AJ a very strong incentive to use PEDs. And judging how obsessed he is about aesthetics, weightlifting and winning at the top level, you would have to be very naïve to believe that he probably wasn't on PEDs. But I'm not going to criticise him for it because I think drug testing in athletics should be abolished.
     
  12. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks for the compubox numbers. It shows that your claim of 50% more punches thrown was just a slight overstatement.
    However I did not realize that Ali & Frazier actually landed MORE punches.
    If they are not taking much more, or in this case less damage (the stats on power punches would be interesting) that is not much more difficult.
    Also lighter weight classes csan & do throw more punches.
    Even more so if you count those landed-No HW fight will approach the most blows thrown or landed of the lighter classes.
    I do think it innacurate to label the 70's "archaic". One record being broken years later does not support this at all.

    I do not think what you wrote was an essay, but if you mean the short article about sumos, they seemed to make a claim about them not being unhealthy in general.
    And I agree that they keep much of the problems of obesity at bay. But not only is it unsustainable for the long run, you are not debating that even when so active the things I cite as still unhealthy exist-poor cardio, joint issues-& even if they could be so active forever, they would not have *no* issues with any major organs, so no higher rate of iabetes & hypertension.
    But we are not far apart on that issue!

    You are not debating that Ali was only a bit overweight in that photo. You mentioned FOTC-he looked lighter there, & was only 215.
    And again 227 without looking heavy in Manilla.
    Yes those guys have bigger frames-but not dramatically so. Mainly they worked on building more muscle, may have used PEDs-or maybe not-& carried more fat that Ali.

    I did not say whether Patterson was a HW. He was by the standards of the day.
    But by my stated standard, using the heaviest of what it has become for years now & what they weighed without being overweight or carrting an unnatural amount of muscle, he is not.

    But you are confusing a couple of things. What the average or bigger HWs are today is *not* a rational stanar to decide what is a natural HW.
    What is both literally & by common sense a natural *whatever* division is someone who makes the weight category while in fighting & not overly bulked up shape.
    Again Ali was both very lean at ~ 210-215 when young, & not heavy up to the late 220's in the '70's. Guys naturally gain weight over time.
    Although sometimes he was chubby around the latter weight or more, depended on his amount of muscle & conditioning.

    Wilder's weight has varied, he was as light as 212 & 1 1/2, precisely what peak Ali was vs. Cleveland Williams.
    That was not long ago when in his 30's! And at 4" taller than Ali & no legs (his thigh is a basically super model skinny 18"(!)...He had somewhat less muscle than Ali.
    Could you say that in some fights Wilder was not a "real" or "natural", or legitimate HW, despite beating everyone until recently?
    No that would be absurd. Just because HW is unique in not having a weight limit so size varies more, does not mean that if you easily & when very fit can make the weight you are not one, just because most guys are even bigger.

    If you like send me your best argument about this & I will start a new thread.
    Using only what is typical today as your standard is as biased as only using the standard of when it was over 175...Or we can be more extreme & say before there was a LHW division in 1924!
    My & most people's estimation makes folks meet the higher limit fit & with a natural body. This is far more fair & balanced.
    The Vast Majority will educate you about whether Ali & others like him are true HWs.

    The one thing I must strongly object to is your lack of reasoning re: who uses drugs.
    It is again like the opposite extreme-assuming nobody ever uses if they did not test dirty!
    how about a crazy assumption that most or all who test dirty are somehow getting false positives?

    Your insistence in maintaining essentially the opposite view is a bit akin to a conspiracy theory; or one that is not amenable to evidence, but faith-based.
    Or we might say an unusual hybrid of *lack* of faith-meaning giving any reasonable doubt, assuming the worst when facts are not available-with a fervor that seems faith-based.

    Gangsters have had a prominent part in the sport. They never controlled everything, & less today.
    By this illogic, assume all fights are always fixed.
    That there are advantages in cheating does not mean either that it works for all, or that many still do not fear consequences such as Exposure, punishment, & deligitimazation (sic).
    Pointing to those who cheat or those who might does not show anything like even most do.
    Just like pointing to endless crimes, or higher rates among men or certain groups, does not prove all of said groups are criminals.

    It *may* be that most today use, or at least have dabbled.
    You & I have no actual evidence for this. Or for assuming otherwise.
    Ethics ARE a real thing & concern & motivation for not cheating & lying. As is Pride & Character.

    Caring about winning & aesthetics does not suggest Joshua cheated!
    Again he may have-but you provide no decent likelihood he does.
    It is NEVER fair & rational not to give the benefit of the doubt absent any damning even circumstantial evidence.

    Also the lowest weight you give for A.J. as an amateur is actually *less* of a swing than Ali made, even only using his very lean prime as a barometer.
    And before folks were using PEDs, or they were even invented, some naturally climbed through even a few weight classes, & a MUCH higher percentage of weight & lean mass gained than Joshua.

    Also I do not see the evidence that Joshua is even "obsessed" with weightlifting.
    Having it be an avid hobby is not necessarily obsessed. IF he was really essentially addicted to the muscle mass, it is doubtful that he would even have come down to as low as the mid 230's to be better suited, including for a better gas tank, against Ruiz.
    At any rate, no great weight for someone 6' 6".

    It would be deeply disturbing & unhealthy to lift all PED restrictions, & it will never happen.
    Then you woul have an officially sanctioned Freak Show where titles money & glory go to those with the best technology, receptors for drugs, & willingness to compromise their health & future.
    A great example for our kids!

    While those who are not willing to sacracfice health, principles, their future, encourage a chemically addled & addictive lifetyle, especially to the next generations...
    Would be enied the ability to compete successfully, maybe even safely, in what would have become a Monstrous DIstortion of their trade.
    And any credible definition of Good Sportsmanship.

    Please consider retreating from endorsing this bleak, dark & dehumanizing version of athletic competition.