The Ali And Marciano Phenomenon

A precident was set by Marciano.... Retired undefeated H/W champ with a great record. 49-0.

This has been the been the greatest single topic regarding any arguement in reference to Marciano vs anyone.. Its an open book... the questions we ask can be indignified via the reminder of the perfect record... I can name 15 Heavyweights I belive would have destryed Marciano, considering size, hand speed, punching ability, durability or schooling. Regardless, the simple fact is, its going to create arguement... so it should.. nothing can be disrespectful when his name is on the agenda.

Larry Holmes had beaten Ali... at the time, near the same age of Louis when marciano belted him... Holmes had bettered Norton over 15 rounds 2 years earlier....

There is a resembleance of Marciano/Louis in the Holmes/Ali fight.. although, Ali wasnt put through the ropes..

In the end, Holmes went 48-0.... Spinks beat him... I wonder of any possible misfortunes offered to Holmes, due to the single defeat??? Had he bettered the Marciano record, then retiered, remained retired and rested on his record.

Larry does quickly become overlooked... as too many seem to rely upon the solitude of Marcianos record.

Larry Holmes would have picked the face of Marciano... Liston would have knocked his block off.. Chuvalo would have been a more than worthy opoonent, perhaps the better man..

Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Klitshenko, Buster Douglas, Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, Donavan Ruddock and Joe Frazier, Cleveland Williams, Ernie Shavers.... All of them would have to be better than Marciano on the day.. I dont care what the history books say..

This is the reason why arguements rage on regarding Marciano and the post/current men.. He left the fight scene without being beaten.. and well done to himself.. What an incredible legacy.

Billy Conn would have been on top of Marciano also... and finished the fight .. a winner.

 

I laughed all the way through that! Good post to start off a thread that might just inspire some of them 'Ortiz'/junior welterweight threads!

 

Chuvalo? He was a durable contender, but lost most of the times he stepped up. If they're so close in ability, then why is Marciano's record so far ahead of the Canadian? You will probably bring up level of competition now, but do you really think that's the only thing seperating them? Bob Baker and Howard King already beat Chuvalo, and they were from Marciano's era.. and not even at the top, at that.

Do you really think Marciano's era was so poor that he was lucky not to have to face Pay McMurty, Pete Radamacher, Joe Erskine, Bob Cleroux, Eduardo Corletti, Zora Folley and Buster Mathis? Because they all beat Chuvalo.


Frankly, to see Marciano vs Chuvalo as a 50/50 fight to me reeks of either complete lack of knowledge or very strong bias/ignorance. I'm guessing the latter.

 

Haha, i cant fault you for watching Unforgiven so much, absolutely brilliant.

 

Intereting... very interesting.... Marciano is the GOAT H/Ws in your view... yet you only tackle the option of Chuvalo at this point.... Ok, I`ll play your game. Chuvalo was a rather large man, head of concrete, flat footed in retrospect, punched like a mule... absorbed and gave a lot more, susceptable to cuts.. He also had an ability.... smothering.. the style of Marciano, smaller and less powerful, would be adequate for the Chuvalo game. I have never heard mention of superiour fitness with the name of Chuvalo attatched, yet, he was very crafty, controlled and durable.. On any night, I believe through physical and mental strenght, he was well afforded to better Marciano. As both men cut at ease, the fight would be a mess.. the crouching style of Marciano would have been a misadventure with Chuvalo... Nothing would make impact in his brain.. his head was not a KO option.. Chuvalo absorbed everything from everyone.. and still managed a focus on the fight.. Foreman Kod him... and Foreman would have Kod Marciano.... a lot quicker.

Chuvalo was the physical image of Marciano... albeit, without the fitness degrees.. The style and fight game would have been less complex, the men would have been toe to toe, the punishment damaging, the weight of Chuvalo effective and the rounded, arm punching of Marciano lessened. If the fight eventuated, I would give the pair a 60/40 chance on any night... Meaning, both men would have the same chance to gain the better, and return to loss................

 

Ease up on the Red Bull.

 

Its completly ignorant posts like this that make me wonder if this is the classic forum...Chuvalo was better, Holmes would have pick his face...they couldn't carry Rocky Jockstrap.....Ignorant and Biased

 

You know -you're right. I read it when I was about 20 -so nostalgia spoke first.

 

There are 2 posters on this thread and about 14 who regularly post on this forum who should be run out on the rails... given the bum's rush right out of here. The Classic forum requires a little class -at least some semblance of reasoning and familaritiy with fighters.

A lot of times when a basic or demented thread appears, you can look at the author, and see that it's either someone we've never seen before, or a clown. The intelligent newbies always seem to acknowledge that they don't post for a while and read regularly instead. That's deliberation, that's respect, that's intelligence. Some guys just bounce all over ESB and write whatever. Ignorance should have a price.

 

Absolutely.... Lets run them out of town. Quality threads are what its about.

 

Simply because the HEavyweight division is the pincacle of the sport, Sugar Ray Robinson can be as impressive P4P as he wants, hes still a rag doll at heavyweight, there by making him the less masculine

In essense the greatest Heavyweight, which the discussion is clearly about, is so much more, the figure head of boxing and best fighter/boxer of all time.

Ortiz certainly can't carry Holmes Jockstrap

 

I haven't figured you out yet. I just went through a few of your posts (which I probably should have done a bit earlier) and you're no simpleton. I'm guessing that you were not serious about Conn and Marciano.

(Quality threads are obviously preferred... but there seems to have been an influx of posters lately who prefer to fool around rather than be serious even most of the time.)

 

GOAT asin Greatest Of All Time? Where did i, ever, claim Marciano was?

"Chuvalo, flatfooted in retrospect", how does that one work? They needed 30 years of examining the tapes to find that out?


As for Chuvalo absorbing everything from anyone, that's simply not true. Foreman KO'd him only 3 rounds, rendering him to a state where he could not defend himself. The same happened against Frazier, in 4 rounds, with his face swollen like a water mellon. Bonavena twice knocked him down. Marciano knocked out every single ranked opponent he ever faced, unlike Foreman, Frazier and Bonavena, and had outstanding stamina to go with it; do you think it'd be a stretch to say he'd stop Chuvalo on sheer accumulation of punishement?


As for Marciano's arm punching..... did you see those one-punch knockouts of Walcott and Layne? Those were awesome arm punches. :good

 

Once people start saying Chuvalo, Snipes and Morrison, and Billy Conn would beat Marciano. Thats when the Rock gets to be underated imo.

I think Marciano would beat Chuvalo in pretty much the same way Frazier did. pressue and power. Rocky in his prime, had good hand speed. He relly started to slow down in 54-55 imo.
Marciano would have chase Conn out of the ring imo. Louis did not put as much pressue on Conn, as I sure Marciano would. Louis for the most part was content on giving Conn room to work, Marciano would give no such thing. Also we talking about a middleweight to lightheavyweight vs a heavyweight. Unlike Archie Moore who got to 188 pounds for Marciano, Conn never relly "Grown" into the divsion so to speak. He was still in the 170's when he fought Louis the first time.