The "All Things Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

Ortiz' win over Berto is also tarnished by the catchweight stipulation, IMO.

 

thank you for your honesty. i thought that you are going a turn on this one. i do not agree with you but at least you are consistent enough.

so basically floyd is fighting a non-WW champ in ortiz right, in your opinion?

 

Wow!! So Floyd is defending against a guy who's belt is useless since he won it on a catchweight fight, according the big brains on you. Good for Floyd!! :rofl

 

I consider Floyd to be the legitimate champ @ ww. Ortiz' alphabet trinket is meaningless.

 

Ortiz' belt would be equally as useless even if Berto Ortiz were contested @ 147lbs...

 

Foolish, taking a belt into obscurity doesn't mean you're still the man.

So was roy never the man at lhw?

You're being silly. Lewis became a true champ against holyfield, not against briggs.

 

Re run of naysayers latest ridiculous opinions:

Foreman-briggs was more of a championship fight tyson-holyfield.

Ortiz-berto is tarnished.

Floyd is the legitimate champ at ww. (Would love to see his explanation here considering floyd retired after smashing hatton)

 

Foreman was champ. Tyson/Holyfield were not.

Ortiz W over Berto is tarnished.

Floyd retired as champ, then unretired to soundly defeat the #1 147lb fighter in the world. Floyd is the Man @ welterweight...

 

No.

Who did Roy ever beat to be considered the Man @ 175lbs?

 

Foreman - briggs was not a championship fight man, get over it. Maybe if the ring had a belt to mark the lineage it would have more hype about it but by then tyson was the man before losing to holyfield.

Floyd retired. The championship was retired with him. He beat the number 1 but then went inactive again. Pac is the number 1 now.

I think it was when roy beat johnson to unify the 3 belts, considering dm went into minor obscurity roy overtook him. He was clearly the best lhw and had a better resume at that point.

Unfortunately for you, a lineage can be usurped which basically means the lineal champ isn't always the best man in the division, at this point the lineal champ is just as worthy as any other. An example is juan diaz, he was clearly the man of the division before losing a close fight to campbell. However casa was the lineal champ. When campbell moved up marquez had to beat both casa and diaz to legitimise his championship and establish himself as the man.

 

Sanctioning mobs and their trinkets do NOT make champions or championship fights.

Foreman WAS the Champion. Briggs beat him. These are the FACTS.

Who has Pacquiao beaten @ 147 to be rated over Floyd?

So Roy's LHW title claim is based on his victory over Reggie Johnson?!?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Stop smoking Crack. Please.

That's some mighty fine doublespeak.

Title lineage can NOT be usurped.

Lineage is everything. Sanctioning mob trinkets are MEANINGLESS....

 

It's not about trinkets, it's about opponents. Tyson smashed bruno and seldon, guys who'd beaten mccall and tucker. Foreman went on a series of meaningless struggles. Where you around back then? It was obvious to everyone who the champ was.

Cotto and clottey.

Not just that, based on his body of work. He beat hill, mccallum, griffin, devale and johnson. It was obvious who was the man and who wasn't.

Lineage is not everything. Don't be so stupid. Langford, jones, burley, these guys never won a lineal title yet are all time greats.

 

I see you're still smoking them good drugs. Foreman was the champ. This SIMPLE FACT is not open to debate. Tyson never beat Foreman so Tyson can't be the champ of anything other than a sanctioning mob's meaningless trinket.

Neither of whom were in the #1 spot when Pacquiao beat them. Floyd, OTOH, beat the #1 welterweight in the world. There is NO justification for rating Pacquiao above Floyd @ 147.

NONE.

Please stop smoking Crack.

WTF are you talking about? Jones beat up on nothing but BUMs during his tenure @ LHW. DM had already beaten Hill before Jones got his hands on him. Everyone else on Jones' LHW resume isn't worth a **** except for Tarver.

Jones' "reign" as the LHW "champion" is a FRAUD. DM had a stronger claim than did Jones. You have to BEAT the Man in order to BE the Man. DM was the Man @ 175lbs.

Lineage is everything if you're going to call yourself a champion.

You have to BEAT the Man in order to BE the Man. Post prison Tyson *never* BEAT the Man. Period, end of story.

 

I'll try to drag us back on track because we're going round in circles with you not admitting you're wrong which leads me to believe you misunderstand the concept.

What does being a lineal champ mean to you?

To me it is simply saying you hold an official victory over the man who holds an official victory over........... the man who created a new lineage by establishing himself as the man (many different ways to do this)

Throughout history the lineal champ is usually regarded as the best man in the division.

Sometimes this claim is usurped by dodgey decisions or sub par defences.

So whilst briggs was a lineal champ, he was never, ever "the man" whereby "the man" is the best boxer in the division.

In 97, who would you call the best heavyweight?

Relating this back to the thread, to say baldomir is a better win than cotto is ridiculous considering context. Cotto beat judah much worse than bald did plus he has a far superior resume.

 

We will see come Sept 17