The "All Things Mayweather/Pacquiao" Express!!!!!!

It's not hairsplitting to point out that the length of time between the motion for records and the settlement was far longer than is being framed, long enough that those trying to infer causation here clearly need far more evidence for their position.

USADA informed the New York Commission of Morales' failed test; the reason that fight went on was because that commission wanted it to. The reason the Berto and Peterson fights were cancelled were likewise because of the commission and promoters in question, not VADA suddenly gaining the ability to punish people in a way that USADA can't.

Floyd can't even read. The fact that an ignoramus is ignorant is apparently a stretch, but a guilty look is apparently perfectly legitimate to convict.

It wasn't unprecedented nor never before carried out. "The guys" wouldn't just be on Floyd's payroll but on both fighters' payrolls.

Arum's initially articulated opposition to USADA had absolutely nothing to do with Mayweather's relationship with them but instead centered on his belief that the existing NSAC testing and/or unlimited urine testing was more than sufficient and that the mere threat of fighters being blood tested without a known cutoff was too intrusive. While one may raise legitimate concerns about Mayweather's relationship with USADA and the incentives it creates, it's nothing but pure agenda-driven revisionism to attribute such concerns to Arum in 2009 and 2010.

 

Next day would be unrealistic and stupid. I mean, really?

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...y-garcia-barclays-center-saturday-sources-say

Meanwhile Keith Idec claims that there were at least 2 failed B samples prior to the fight, with USADA deliberating whether to giv him the "contaminated meat" exemption lol.

There's no conviction, we're talking smoke here. And if you can't recognize a bald faced liar on video, I can't help you. But tell me more about infinitesimal chances lol.

Yeah I'll take your word for it. So why did Arum try to enlist others to do this, from NSAC to WADA directly?

 

I agree it would be, but the way the story gets told, Floyd got the subpoena and looked to immediately settle the case, which isn't true at all. I tend to think the sun going up in the morning isn't why I'm hungry when I wake up, but I suppose there's smoke in support of that theory.

None of this disputes the part that it was the New York Commission that made the decision to allow Morales to fight and was the body that ultimately bought the contaminated meat nonsense.

And we're talking some weak ass smoke at best. I'm sure you'd also accept the idea that Pacquiao stuttering and stammering when the 14 day cutoff was brought up by Kenny also constitutes evidence of his guilt, right?

When did Arum do this? Well after the fact? Becuse your initial claim was "from day one" and I sure hope you're not trying to change the topic by bring up things from 2012. Give me one quote from the initial negotiations where Arum complains specifically about Floyd's relationship with USADA as the reason for his opposition to their testing, rather than the "inflexibility" of their random testing protocol actually being random.

 

If all of this is true, then why isn't ANYONE in boxing even attempting to do anything about it? Nobody complain or even bring it up.. People still want to fight him.. Is the is government on his payroll too?

 

Well they settled within the window given to produce the evidence, which is all that matters. Nobody would settle ASAP, you'd take your time as long as you make the subpoena deadline.

NSAC was told they B sample would not be in till after the fight, which was later disputed by Idec, and which really would be unprofessional on USADA's part.

Stuttering is not a bald faced lie, nor is Pac a PED crusader.

I'm doing it from memory. I had trouble finding any articles from that period, send some espn links if you can find any. I remember him being mistrustful of USADA/Tygart, and wanting other people to do it, whether NSAC, WADA or whoever capable. If I was Pac, I wouldn't consent to something that could end up in testing the day of fight or weighin, fcuk that. Do it random, but with a cutoff. Of course, there's zero transparency as to what constitutes "random" here.

 

Complain about the terms of the contract? It's a private contract, they can put whatever they want in it. About Floyd failing tests? Probably cause the only way to get the docs is through a subpoena, which coincided with Floyd settling the lawsuit soon after he countersued Pac lol.

 

They settled within the time of any discovery on both sides. Again, it takes an awful lot of stretching to suggest that this was purely a product of the subpoena, most especially since Mayweather harmed his own chances in the case by blowing off the court months earlier.

But USADA did inform NYSAC of the B sample result before the fight as well. Again, it's the commission that allows or disallows a fight from happening.

Being or not being a PED crusader is related to the issue of hypocrisy, not the issue of guilt.

Arum didn't start complaining about the USADA/Mayweather relationship until 2011. Indeed, it would in fact be nonsensical for him to be complaining about their "coziness" from day one as you suggest since of course they had tested Maywether as much as they had tested Pacquiao. His complaints about USADA during the initial negotiation again had everything to do with a random protocol having no cutoff, not anything related to their leader or their relationships.

I do find it amusing that a mere two posts after declaring that testing agencies should be adversarial to fighters, you now suggest that Pacquiao was correct to want their policies to be more and not less accommodating to his needs, most especially in the form of a guaranteed period over which he wouldn't be tested and the need for transparency in randomness, a most interesting concept. Of course, the final offer from Mayweather that Pacquiao walked away from did in fact guarantee that he wouldn't have blood drawn on the day of the fight or the weigh-in, but 14 days was still too short a time for them.

 

I was talking about his obvious PED usage.. He came up with the brilliant plan to use PEDs but made sure his opponent that he paid off don't use them too.. Just in case his opponent pot up a decent fight, Floyd paid the judges to give him the nod.. And to attempt to keep his health in tact, he paid the ref to keep the paid opponent from roughing him up.. Then he go to his big house and relax with his paid women and friends.. Maybe drive some of his many cars.. All of of 102 million a year.. It must be cheaper to pay off people than I thought...

 

Floyd countersued Pac for defamation prior to the subpoena. Why do that if intending to settle?

Any links? The link I provided is the day before the fight. Idec claims that at that point there were 2+ failed B samples, so the commission was mislead.

There's nothing guilty in stuttering. Lying OTOH... Floyd may be an idiot, but he's a boxing savant. TRT is prevalent in boxing, even found in his gym. His friend and former manager ran a chain of TRT clinics. You believe what you want.

Given that it was a highly unusual request in boxing at the time, no issue with setting some boundaries. I agree 14 days was fine. Better yet, 7 day cutoff is fine, which Team Pac was open to after the Clottey fight, at a minimum. Unless the intention is to obstruct, of course.

So you like no transparency? How do they do it, roll dice, run a computer program? The Mosley testing schedule did not "appear random" at all. We take them on their word?

 

Who sues fighters for PED use? It's only if they're implicated in something bigger, involving baseball players and other athletes people care about, that the names come out and nothing is done about it. You gotta fail a pre or post fight drug test to even get any kind of suspension

 

The countersuit came years before the settlement. They may not have gone in intending to settle, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that factors beyond the horror of a request for records is what prompted the settlement. This is doubly so since the basis for the subpoena in question was Mayweather's own countersuit; why not just drop that countersuit instead of settling altogether if the request for records was the primary motivation.

The NY Daily News says NYSAC was informed of the results but allowed the fight to proceed: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...ys-fight-morales-doping-ban-article-1.1296898

But then again, the issue of drug testing was no longer so unusual during the time after the Clottey fight. Indeed, the highest selling PPV fight of the year had just been staged with full random drug testing and no need for any cutoff at all. But I see now we're on to the specifics of drug testing protocol rather than Mayweather's relationship with USADA or whatever other principled reason Bob had for walking away from a fight.

Where did I say I like transparency? I was merely noting that you are demanding transparency from the testers for the fighters out of one side of your mouth while advocating a more adversarial relationship between testers and fighters out of the other. It seems to me greater transparency when it comes to the issue of when testing will occur, including in the form of pre-announced cutoffs, undermines the latter. The potential effectiveness of random testing lies just as much in the threat of being tested as it does in actually being tested.

 

If he'd dropped the countersuit when subpoenaed, wouldn't have looked good or helped his chances with the original defamation suit. So probably a good time to cut your losses.

The Daily News article is 6 months after the fact, and short on details. I gave you a much more detailed link from the day of the weighin, as things were unfolding.

I do hold Pac/Arum responsible for the 1st breakdown, 14 days was fine. But they soon agreed to reasonable terms, and Floyd ws nowhere to be found.

I don't mean preannouncing test dates. I mean having some assurance that the system is not gamed, like that the dates are truly random etc. Having someone supervise these guys, some neutral body not on Floyd/GBP's payroll. I don't believe USADA is that dirty, and I'm not even superstitious like Pac, but if I got tested day of fight I'd be suspicious.

 

QUOTE=dodong;

silence the rumor and release the records.

...but if floyd inadvertently took PED, what could've caused it you think??

-------------

QUOTE=Nonito Smoak;

Don't you think it's odd of you to say this when you defended Pacquiao for years when people said:

"Silence the rumor and take the blood test."

Now you have quite dramatically changed your tune.

 

How do you see this going they have put alot into this with the promotion work they stacked their undercard...............will it flop like the first one:hey

 

So dropping the countersuit alone would have looked bad, but settling altogether doesn't?

Montoya has said the NYSAC knew about the results of the test and allowed the fight to proceed as well, or at least left the decision up to Garcia. This entire tangent is missing the forest for the trees since as I said all along, third-party testing organizations lack the authority to actually prevent fights from happening.

Was full random testing still an "unusual" request in the second half of 2010? If not, then their continued disinterest in it remained a stumbling block to say the least, in spite of repeated efforts to appear to have agreed without agreeing.

Again, any third-party drug testing agency would get paid by both fighters; the idea that they'd be one on fighter's payroll but not the other's is nonsense. It seems to me when it comes to the issue of neutrality, it would be far more worrisome when an opponent's adviser is actively involved with the testing agency, as would be the case for anyone fighting a Conte-associated opponent with VADA testing in effect.