The all things technical thread.

^ Its obviously because you're scared of it atsch

 

no not necessarily. Look at the pad trainiing Roach did with Pacman before the Hatton fight. You can't do that with a bag IMO

Too much of anything will lead to increased risk of injury. Modern training methods done correctly will reduce injury as they are based on a better understanding of human physiology.

Variety of sports which use different mechanics have benefited. Boxers have no different anatomy/muscles/cardiovascular system from any other athlete and there is no reason why they can't benefit from the training methods.

why are simply calisthenetics enough when they are limited and they are better proven method of conditioning?

It's obvious there is a nostaligia element in your post. There is always room for improvement.

I don't disagree with this and it applies to any discipline-skill training comes first. But it's not like fighters from the past did not do non-boxing activities e.g long slow distance running. I suggest you read the Evander Holyfield article I posted earlier which shows the benefits of modern conditioning vs old dinosaur conditioning.

 

For the sake of the eyes I will- only copy and paste your first paragraph but i'm posting in reply to the lot.....

Not sure what the constant use of the word plyometric here- may have missed something earlier but plyometric literall means a fast powerful movement- guess what your old timers used to do these all the time, its certainly not a modern fad. Everytime a boxer throuws a punch they do so plyometrically. The secret behind plyometrics as far as modern day conditioning is concrened is having the muscles fire in whats called a 'kinetic chain' I think. You can have open and closed chains depending on what sport or activity is being completed but conditioners should be targeting chains of movement in order to maximise performance by generating power using the whole body- a poor boxer will through a punch with minimal 'chain of movement' hope that makes sense.

Modern day conditioning does not function around plyometrics which is what you seem to be saying (sorry if I've read wrong). Plyometric training is only a tiny part of a boxers Ideal conditioning programme. It takes a long time - to get very, very small gains and as a personal trainer it would be one of the last things I would look to develop in a novice boxer.

Modern day conditioning is simply activities that stand to develop key components of a boxers make up. For example you should have optimal recovery, VO2 Max, power, speed, resistance to body shots, leg strength, arm strength etc etc etc... there are millions of areas in which the human body can be improved and a modern day conditioner should be looking to find ways in which to develop these area's.

For example I will do at least one max strength session a week. I will do at least one 10k. I will do a number of interval runs. I will do a number of interval circuits. I will do a number of boxing related workouts using punching as a method of fatiguing myself.

Your argument regarding the non-improvement of boxers and boxers performance hold little weight here mate because as the saying goes 'two cart horses still make a race'... whose to say that the reason henry armstrong was able to punch so frequently was because his opponents hit like modern day females and as such he wasn't forced to go anerobic as frequently as one might expect against Pacquaiou or Mayweather.

I think the depreciation of modern day boxing has more to do with the loss of top trainers then anything else. Going through those video's of old timers like Pepp and Burley- do you really think the modern day coaches who train the young kids coming through take the time to watch these great fighters and pass on their little skills- those tiny touches that make a great fighter even better.

I love working with Kevin Maree- he's very mindful of the little things and thats what makes him a great coach. Indeed it seems no coincidence that the person who introduced me to greats like Cerdan, Duran etc was my amateur coach.... A guy called Andy Sumner- a brilliant trainer who coached myself, Brian rose, Jack Arnfield, Kark Kirkham, Matty Askin, Roy Finlay and a host of other excellent amateurs.

Too many people hold a sat of pads and stand in the corner of a gym chewing gum and name dropping thinking that they are qualified to develop young talent. Its a joke. I just hope that the kids I train go on to train others and I can pass on the subtleties and my intrepretation of them as well as possible. One of my little champs has being watching Nicolinno lochhee this week -should be fun.

 

Whats your opinion on mileage jeff?

I was shocked at how Hayes conditioner basically said it was intervals or nothing, as if doing the traditional road work was a waste of time. Some argue once a certain level of fitness is achieved that long runs are essentially useful for nothing except losing weight. I totally disagree with this, as I think it gives a base of fitness that stands to you. i did a bit of middle distance running and without the blend of intervals / circuits / form drills and long runs I would have been totally useless

 

My mate said that, I don't agree with Haye's conditioner and tbh Haye lost his form and looked shattered as fights wore on.

Calzaghe's long runs won him fights, he had a amazing engine. I suppose a lot of it's down to the athlete and what style they employ but i totally agree with your line of thought.

I know the Klits swim rather then run, but that makes sense as long as a fighter is swimming at a pace and working hard.

 

I agree with some of what Jeff says in respect of ''some trainers''.

It's laughable that a potentially world beating amateur or one with very good credentials at least - who will have worked with some seriously good coaches - can go to working with a complete joker once he turns over.

Jim McDonnell is very good at getting his fighters fit, but technically he's very limited, The Dark One is a good cornerman and strategist but again, technically limited, and other trainers like Maree, Farnell etc are still learning their trade to a large degree.

These are the sort of trainers I'd encourage young fighters to work with, as opposed to a McDonnell, a Brian Hughes or a Bobby Rimmer - no disrespect/offence intended.

 

Whos the last British trainer to take a fighter from a gym walk in at 7/8 years old to a 'world champion'?

 

A genuine ''world champion'' :think

Billy Graham started working with Hatton in his mid teens, a couple of years before he went pro.

 

yea it seems as if they start with someone then go somewhere else as a developed amateur and then someone again at pro

I was thinking along the lines of the marquez bros with berestain or for a less EXTREME example Barry Hunter with the (one champ though) peterson bros?

 

I mentioned plyometric training as part of modern S & C also included interval training