The all things technical thread.

I think sometimes we are all very harsh on Roy Jones in terms of discrediting his boxing skills. I'm guilty of it more than most. I think he had very good boxing skills. The fundamentals were not as bad as people make out. The only thing was he didn't jab enough even though he had a good jab, imo. And he didn't have to learn or have to roll with punches in a conventional way. There was little incentive in doing for that for him. His athleticism was just so overwhelming. But his boxing skills are not as bad as we make out. In some ways they were excellent. He also had amazing boxing IQ. Much of his faults was just as a result of falling off naturally. Instead of what people tend to always say in that once his athleticism was gone he was a sitting duck. Which is true, but it wasn't as simple as that. He lasted longer at the top then some fighters who are considered to be MUCH more fundementally sound for example. The problem wasn't when his fall came, it was how sudden and 'shocking' it was.

 

What i think is missed with him though is that his boxing skills and IQ enable him to maximise those incredible gifts. Ali also had a good mix. His fundamentals weren't that bad either. What he had over the likes of Roy was toughness and an incredible ability to absorb punishment, which came in hand later on.

 

Yep. I'll tell you what i mean, Flea. Just to explain this point a little better. Many people always say Roy declined only because his athleticism went. Do we agree that some of the attributes that Roy Jones relied on are some of the first to leave a fighter?

Roy Jones started to slip when he was around 34/35 years old. I compare that with some great technical fighters such as Chavez, Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard, Pete Whitaker etc. Guess what they also slipped at a similar age to Roy. Now, i know it's not that simple but it's something to point out i think. Most fighters are not the same in their mid 30's like they were in their mid to late 20's. Athleticism wasn't the reason those great technical fighters slipped, but that's used as an excuse to discredit Roy Jones. He was the one of the most dominant fighters. I think i know why he slipped so suddenly from being at the top to losing horribly. I think it's more to do with what's inside in terms mentally then his freakish athleticism going. Which is obviously a major reason too.

 

The biggest mistake he made was coming back down so quickly from heavyweight. You can't put that type of muscle mass on, at that age and then strip that muscle so quickly and expect to be the same. It's frustrating because Roy was such a unique fighter. Once in a life time type.

To exband on the mentality point. And how that was a problem for him and a factor in his decline just as much as his athleticism falling off. When he slowed down he didn't have what's inside to turn into a real dawg of a fighter. That inner will wasn't there. Maybe that's harsh. Duran for example fought a beast in Barkely at 37 years of age and even though he'd slipped he was tough enough mentally and physically to grit it out and go to a different place mentally. Roy had fights he would've won like Johnson had he had that inner fire. It's scary because if he retires after Ruiz we're sitting here debating whether he's the GOAT or not. Instead some people won't even have him in the top 20. I do btw.

 

I just think it was partly mental. Think about this, fellas. Roy actually won the first Tarver fight, everybody seems to forget that. Even though he was depleted imo. He pulled it in the last couple of rounds and won that fight. By the time the third fight came round his body should've had enough time to recover and take root again. He did better in the first fight with Tarver when he was physically depleted and a 'dead man' than he did in the third fight. What happened inbetween? he got clocked with a big shot and knocked out. This made him mentally kind of shot imo. And it's one of the reasons for his decline. I believe if he doesn't get caught by Tarver in that second fight he still competes at a high level and retains his moxie. I don't think the Johnson KO comes either. That's whay i think his decline was more mental than a lack of boxing skills or fundamentals. It's a good discussion.

 

I boxed as a youngster, mate. But never went any further for varies reasons. I'm now hoping to get into training/coaching later on, when i think i'm ready or the opportunity presents itself. That's if it's not too late by then. :good