The way to get yourself dropping your weight, btw. and practice it is to do it on the heavy bag. You stand infront of the the heavy bag. Lean against it and then push it back. As it comes back to hit you drop your weight dead and it won't move you off balance. If it moves you off balance than you're not dropping your weight properly. Try and absorb it when it swings back without it moving you off balance.
This is something 'McGrain' posted in the classic forum just now. It's in this months edition of Ring Magazine. Makes for interesting reading...
Manny's right about making a fist, last week in sparring wore these gloves and i couldn't really land a good clean punch due to have issues making fist in glove. It's so padded i'm having to grip so hard to make a fist.
While I think pads have helped boxing technique it is only when applied with the right trainer. I have been on pads with some guys where its just going through the motions, Ive had to consciously correct my own technique. The whole point of pads should be to teach technique. One of the things I notice with Steward on the pads it its very slow. He isnt doing the bang-bang-bang.
Also im going to have the last say on the new school/old school conditioning There is no way Jones would have made heavy successfully or Manny risen up to Welter under old school methods. Peace.
Armstrong went from 9 stone to 10 stone. Manny Pacman went from 8 stone to 10 stone. The heavyweights in Charles era that he faced were significantly lighter than even Ruiz.
I agree. Btw, when did 'public school boys' start doing boxing? We've already dealt with this, Andy. You picked out two special cases. What Henry Amrstrong did is better than what Pacquaio has done. Manny was that small weight naturally at that age. He just happened to turn pro. Most comparable guys at the same age would be the same weight but the difference being they were still amateurs. It's also as much about his technical improvements and what Freddie's been able to do with him as anything, which has enabled him to move up successfully. Henry Armstrong turned pro at bantamweight/super bantamweight, so below 9st and was good enough to beat/draw with the middleweight champion of the world. Roberto Duran turned pro at 119lbs and he was able to be very competitive all the way up to super middleweight. Go even further back to Georges Carpentier. He 'reportedly' turned pro as a flyweight or bantamweight as a teenager. As he got bigger, he won the European welterweight title, became the light heavyweight champion of the world, became the French heavyweight champion, and went on to lose to two greats in Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney at heavyweight and light heavy respectively. Ray Robinson could've moved up earlier but it wasn't as common and defending his middlweight titles and regaining them was more prestigious back then. It's important to note that back in the day fighters didn't move and leave their weight classes as much. It was more prestigious to defend and dominate your own division. But Ray Robinson fought at light heavyweight though having turned pro at lightweight. Ray Leonard, Hearns, Arguello, etc. All started out lower weights and were effective after putting on about 30lbs, maybe nobody started as low as Manny. But Manny turned pro very early. Floyd Mayweather at the same age was a similar weight. He just wasn't a pro. Manny is also bigger set then people realise. He was actually draining himself to make some of those lower weights. You think Roy beating Ruiz was so special and only done because of 'modern conditioning'. Well, James Toney basically ate himself up there and had a good run. I don't see what 'new conditioning' he took advantage of. Unless you mean 'steriods'.... Also why didn't this 'new conditioning' help Roy Jones go back without much effect? Lets not forget also that guys like Manny fight in an era of day before fight weigh-ins, which also happens to be watered down. Heavyweights in Charles' era may have been smaller but they were also MUCH more skilled than someone like John Ruiz. You seem to be putting too much emphasize on size. Who would you rather be fighting if you're moving to heavyweight John Ruiz or Arnold Cream? And anyway, there really isn't THAT much difference in the training methods as we all think. Boxing's techniques and methods are pretty much steadfast and universal. Those 'old' methods are also useful today. Floyd still runs in combat boots for example. There's still nothing better to strengthen your abs and learn to absorb bodyshots then a medicine ball. The bags are still key, etc. Now, i'm not saying some things haven't improved, they have. But not to such an extent that we moved on so drastically. If we had, more guys would be doing it and the performances would be better, which they're not. Like i always say, the results and end product as a whole in terms of depth and quality speak for themselves. Not just picking out one or two examples which disprove the rule. Fighters that are special would've been able to fight in any era. No matter if they're 'modern' or 'old school'.
Pacman was able to starve himself of water to make Flyweight. He didn't grow, he only stopped pulling himself to ridiculous (look at the size difference between Sasakul and Manny) weights which he never would've been able to attempt with same day weigh in's. No Alex Ariza back then either, so there's that theory out of the window as well. And he got stopped from seemingly nothing blows subsequently and wasn't durable again until he moved up. So I wouldn't say that was a particularly good example, in fact, it's a bad one. With same day weigh in's, no he wouldn't have been able to do it. Was Elmer Ray lighter than Ruiz? Sam langford went from Lightweight to Heavyweight. With 'modern conditioning' would he have started at Straw?
It's not just modern conditioning I don't rate. Today's fighters just do not compare. Nice addition to the thread, and McGrain is as astute a technical analyst as I know.
Maybe a little of topic, but what do you guys think one should do if he moves from Muay thai to boxing. What technical difficulties could he have? Awesome thread by the way. This is always the first thread I look at when I log into ESB.
He'll most probably be straight on and less used to throwing punches in combination. He will (going on most converts) be well-organised, pretty tight guard and be well versed in the fundamentals, and nails. Going at them is a bad idea because they're good matadors converts, they're used to stepping back from kicks and whatnot. With Thai's, it's all down to the individual and what they bring over. Most have their own quirks, but the straight punching and aggressive technical counter punchers (Sasakul, Daorung, Sahaprom, Khaokor, Wonjongkam) is what I usually think of, rather than the monsters (Muangsurin, Khaosai) or those more well-versed on their feet (Samart, and to a lesser degree, Chitalada) Obviously by the time experienced Nak Muay turn over they may well be past their physical prime anyway.
I ask because i'm going to start to Muay Thai, and would like to switch to boxing at a later stage in my life. So i'm happy about the fundamentals part. What do you mean "and nails?" That they are tough? Thanks for the answer:thumbsup