The all things technical thread.

Agreed.

There was no way Haye could 'out jab' Wlad. He could counter his jab, he could try and take away his jab, but not in a million years could he out jab him from distance. Height and reach is what has made Wlad so dominant. It matters! especially when you mix it with good boxing acumen.

I don’t mean to be a killjoy, PK. but we need to be realistic about David Haye's abilities against someone like Wlad. Sorry to say it, but Haye can’t beat Tim Witherspoon or Pinklon Thomas. The guy did the best he could with what he had. He can’t subtly shift inside like Joe Louis or James Toney and take advantage of Wlad’s non infighting ability. He does not have that Holyfield, Marciano, Frazier type of toughness where he walk through hell to get to his man. He's also not a super skilled, slick fighter.

Haye is not Tyson. Completely different styles and levels.

Haye could do whatever he wanted against Harrison. Not the case with Wlad.

That's just who Haye is, PK. That's the way he's fought most of his career at this level. I can’t understand why people are so shocked at how Haye fought. That fight was never ganna be an action-packed fight. Haye would have been killed had he fought a pressing fight and people would call him dumb. Haye does not have the skillset or physical toughness to fight that kind of fight. That's just the way it is. You can't expect him to morph into different fighter overnight.

Haye was knocked down 4 times as a pro and knocked OUT 3 times as an amateur. He's a ballsy guy, with good power, but not a relaxed guy, who can shift in the pocket and give a systematic beat down. There was NO other fight he could have fought.

He needed a Evander Holyfield type of toughness to win that fight. Some talk about Wlad’s lack of toughness. Well Wlad does lack toughness but he doesn’t have to take as much because of his huge stature. It’s a tough feeling when punches are bothering you more than the eye can see. Fighters fight the style that is most comfortable to them most of the times. Haye fights that darty, frenetic style because punishment bothers him. It’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just what it is.

In the last 30 years tell me how many guys, who are not THAT durable but can go balls to walls and engage in high contact fights at the elite level. I can only think of 2, Tommy Hearns and Terry Norris. Haye is nowhere near those guys.

 

Good observation on your part there, J. Yeah, they are somewhat similar.

Degale strikes me as a one handed fighter on offense. I really think his right hand is so much more less effective then is left. His left is beautiful at times. As an uppercut, straight and even when he uses it as a jab when he switches. His right is the opposite. Every punch he throws with that right hand is a slap. And i think i know why...

 

Thanks, D. :thumbsup

 

Check these photos out, fellas. Posted in the classic.
Very interesting stuff.
It's Stanly Ketchel using a body bag in the early 1900's and Rocky Marciano working the mitts.

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This content is protected

 

IMHO Degale's poor punching technique and slapping, especially with his right hand was developed very early on with the pads. I don't think the person who first held the pads for him was holding them right.

I'm all for padwork, but it's a real skill and should be done by someone who knows how to hold them. Far too many trainers don't know how to hold the pads. Everyone uses them but if there's someone who doesn't know how to use them holding it for the fighter then it creates problems, imo. This is one of my biggest concerns with the mitts.

From the way Degale punches i can assume this was the case with him on the mitts when he started. He was taken on there too soon i would imagine. I bet the person holding it for him was bringing the mitts halfway to meet his punches, doing it very quickly and moving on to the next kid.

The whole point is to 'receive' and 'resist' the punch on the mitts, not to meet the fist, per se. By meeting the punches on the mitts, basically, The fighter is learning to hit a target that is halfway between him and the real thing.

It's easy to learn how to hit mitts, but very hard to learn how to hold them. We need good holders in order to develop good hitters. If we don’t have good holding, it will limit how far we can take the hitting.

It's just a hunch, but i think this is where Degale's problem stems from. I would love to know who his first mitt holder was.

 

Good point there, Mo. I would imagine they had the same coach. But did Degale start there from the get-go?

Also i'd imagine 'bad' mitt work would effect guys in different ways, depending on other factors, like style, mentality, natural punching power and what happened after they left. Degale spent a longer time training as an am too.

 

Good point, Bill. McDonnell (better get the spelling right this time ) seems like more of a cheerleader to Degale. I don't wanna knock McDonnell, he was a good fighter and he knows a lot about the sport, i respect him. But i've never really been impressed with him as a trainer. As you say he'll get you in shape, but is perhaps lacking in the teaching department.

Booth on the other hand has control over his fighters. I look at him on the pads and he really knows what he's doing in terms of correcting punching technique and following through the target, non of that pitta-patter stuff.

He's also brillient in the corner. I always say it's easy to tell a guy WHAT to do, but it's HARD to tell him HOW to do it. Booth can tell fighters HOW to do things when he's in the corner and he's super calm, only saying what needs to be said.

 

Post more, Arnie. It'd be great to get some of your insight. :good