The Amsterdam vs. Fans of Old School Boxers Thread

Sure, well here -

We have Muhammad Ali, who's legend has made him untouchable despite being tagged frequently by fighters 4x less the level of Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko in his prime. He never faced anyone taller than he and therefore never had to punch up, on the contrary, Wlad and Lewis punch down and get full leverage.

Ali with his hands down allowed Zora Folley of all people to time and land right hand after right hand early on in their fight.

So Lennox or Wlad's jab wouldn't find a home either, shortly followed by an added counter?

Why is Muhammad Ali at his peak unbeatable? Where did he fight anyone resembling Lennox or Wladimir, why did Folley land so many timed right hands with ease? Why was Ali much more open and timable than Wlad or Lennox?

Where am I off? Is it just because Ali is a certified high ranking ATG that he's a H2H monster? Or am I missing something from the analysis I have of Ali from the many fights that I have observed of his?

Please let me know ABC.

 

Sure isn't.

 

Ali chose speed over power, throws a lot of arm punches, was a very good hooker and combination puncher, but was not by any means a phenominal straight shot counter puncher, which is what is needed to spark Lennox. On top of that, he lacks the power to KO Lennox.

Now, overall, Lennox is a much more sound technical fighter than Ali and has the power to stop him after accumulation, Ali having never fought a man taller than him or a man as technically sound with Lennox's physical gifts(timing, speed, power as a combo) is going to get tagged a lot.

I'd say Lewis TKO 7, one sided, it's very easy to predict and analyse here, it's not rocket science.

Ali's accomplishments stand clear, but this is H2H, this is a whole different game involved.

 

Muhammad Ali faced a few taller fighters, although none were the quality of Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko.

In head to head matchups with these two, I think I would go with either of them post 1972. Ali's movement wasn't the same as it once was, his speed was decreasing, his reflexes were slowly going, and his timing wasn't quite the same. I wouldn't count Ali out though.

I would pick Muhammad Ali over Lennox and Wladimir during his peak years around 1966 and 1967. I think he had the right combination of hand speed and movement as well as the jab and timing to get to the targert first and keep Lewis or Klitschko off balance. They could have timed him with occasional right hands, but I can't see Ali getting stopped. He could take one hell of a shot and had great recuperative powers to go along with it.

 

Difference is that Angelo Dundee said that around the Folley fight that he was at his absolute peak, his best and was one of his best performances before the exile.

It indeed was a good version of Ali, but still, the record stands that Folley found his defence easy enough to pierce right hand leads through and win the early rounds.

Ali was no defensive master.

To be honest, his speed is really not that much different than Lennox, it's clearly quicker on film, but more due to the fact that Ali was mostly an arm puncher. Movement speed is very comparable, Lennox's timing and counter punching is league's ahead and can easily land on Ali and slow that speed down.

I don't think Ali was smarter than Lennox, Lennox at his best doesn't get hit with the stupid shots that Ali gets hit with and was a great tactical boxer.

Chin goes to Ali, that's not even up for discussion.

Well, I feel he does lose to Wlad, Wlad has an awful style for him and will be landing his jab and pin point right very frequently and again, Ali lacks the power to really put a significant enough dent in Wlad.

Ali would find Wlad very tricky to get in on with his euro-boxer style and long jab.

Lennox should be a complete favourite. Note also, that it was the worst Williams that could have faced Ali, yet Ali still shows technical issue's.

 

Because he absolutely is not going to be outscoring and outboxing Lewis, that's impossible with his style and set up/skill set.

 

So does Guzman (too sharp, Pep won't beso evasive) and especially Barrera (Barrera's own body movement and footwork would mess Pep up badly if he tried to fight in his legendary style).

Pacman and Hamed would stop the man. They can go hung-ho against a puncher as weak as Pep.

 

not a knock on pep as his legacy and ATG standing is secure, but all the great modern feathers would beat pep. pac would overwelm him, morales would walk him down, hamed ktfo pep....... i wont even mention what a feather arguello would do.

 

:good