The argument for a Bernard Hopkins win

twenty1 · Apr 10, 2008

PrideOfWales said:

The build up to this fight has been different to any previous Calzaghe fight I can remember. The reasons are many: fighting outside of Europe for the first time, fighting at a different weight for the first time, fighting an older man for a change, none of his belts on the line etc etc... But the one aspect that could make all the difference is the intelligence (in the ring) of his opponent. I don't think anybody else has brought the ring smarts to the table that Hopkins will bring come Saturday week. Defensively, Hopkins is better than Calzaghe's best victims, much better. Hopkins counterpunching ability allied to this defence, in combination with Joe's sometimes ragged and open southpaw style make Calzaghe a sitting duck for a booming right hand straight on the button. Joe normally doesn't worry too much if he misses a few punches in his combinations (see the Manfredo finish - he missed them all), he simply continues with his unrelenting output... a barrage which has seen him "stop" his opponents by overwhelming them. Some call it conning the ref - regardless, it's always been Calzaghe's style and his intentions are to throw as many punches as possible, not to sit there and pick the right one.

In Las Vegas, it's supposed to be a proper fighters venue where fights don't get stopped until the very last moment and referees won't tolerate slapping. Let's hope Calzaghe refrains from the latter punching technique and sticks to what he did in the Kessler and Lacy fights.

Frank Warren has kept Calzaghe under close tabs for a lot of years, letting him fight boxers everyone knew he would beat. Only once in the whole time that Joe has been WBO champion has he started as underdog in a fight: against Jeff Lacy. If you look back at the reasons why Lacy was favourite, it was as much that Calzaghe looked awful in encounters with Evans Ashira (labouring, limping to a dull 12 round decision) and Kabary Salem (getting dropped and roughed up by nothing more than a journeyman) than Lacy was looking impressive. Everyone involved in the UK knew that Calzaghe looks his best against come forward, aggressive fighters when Joe is properly prepared. Joe was properly prepared and Lacy happened to be one paced. All very good. But see what happens when boxers leave the initiative to Calzaghe - David Starie, Jimenez, Robin Reid - Joe looks less than stellar... in fact, in those fights he looked distinctly average. He's fighting arguably the best boxer in the world at setting traps for boxers just like Calzaghe to barge straight into with wide eyed gumption. Joe has been floored twice before due to his open attacking style and being caught without seeing it coming. The intriguing thing is that this is what Hopkins is brilliant at - countering accurately with a single shot. Nobody has outboxed Joe or got anywhere near to establishing the upper hand with a jab so this will be a waste of time if Hopkins tries it. So he won't (find the compubox numbers for how many jabs Hopkins threw in the Wright (southpaw) fight). Hopkins wants JC to try and control the fight, he wants him to take risks, to dive in and launch flurries. Tactically, if Joe is unable to bully Hopkins by throwing him off balance, giving him a chance to land and crucially, if Hopkins isn't drawn into a slugging match (highly unlikely) then he has the perfect game to end Calzaghe's winning record.

A high paced fight results in a Calzaghe win, probably by stoppage. A slow paced fight as a result of Hopkins repeatedly landing the right hand when Joe gets too close takes away everything good about Calzaghe - the combinations, the handspeed, the power, the fitness and stamina. Then what we have left is a broken man with nothing left to do than desperately try to stop the contest - this is further bad news and could end in an embarrasing defeat.
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this is great:good

sues2nd · Apr 10, 2008

PrideOfWales said:

The build up to this fight has been different to any previous Calzaghe fight I can remember. The reasons are many: fighting outside of Europe for the first time, fighting at a different weight for the first time, fighting an older man for a change, none of his belts on the line etc etc... But the one aspect that could make all the difference is the intelligence (in the ring) of his opponent. I don't think anybody else has brought the ring smarts to the table that Hopkins will bring come Saturday week. Defensively, Hopkins is better than Calzaghe's best victims, much better. Hopkins counterpunching ability allied to this defence, in combination with Joe's sometimes ragged and open southpaw style make Calzaghe a sitting duck for a booming right hand straight on the button. Joe normally doesn't worry too much if he misses a few punches in his combinations (see the Manfredo finish - he missed them all), he simply continues with his unrelenting output... a barrage which has seen him "stop" his opponents by overwhelming them. Some call it conning the ref - regardless, it's always been Calzaghe's style and his intentions are to throw as many punches as possible, not to sit there and pick the right one.

In Las Vegas, it's supposed to be a proper fighters venue where fights don't get stopped until the very last moment and referees won't tolerate slapping. Let's hope Calzaghe refrains from the latter punching technique and sticks to what he did in the Kessler and Lacy fights.

Frank Warren has kept Calzaghe under close tabs for a lot of years, letting him fight boxers everyone knew he would beat. Only once in the whole time that Joe has been WBO champion has he started as underdog in a fight: against Jeff Lacy. If you look back at the reasons why Lacy was favourite, it was as much that Calzaghe looked awful in encounters with Evans Ashira (labouring, limping to a dull 12 round decision) and Kabary Salem (getting dropped and roughed up by nothing more than a journeyman) than Lacy was looking impressive. Everyone involved in the UK knew that Calzaghe looks his best against come forward, aggressive fighters when Joe is properly prepared. Joe was properly prepared and Lacy happened to be one paced. All very good. But see what happens when boxers leave the initiative to Calzaghe - David Starie, Jimenez, Robin Reid - Joe looks less than stellar... in fact, in those fights he looked distinctly average. He's fighting arguably the best boxer in the world at setting traps for boxers just like Calzaghe to barge straight into with wide eyed gumption. Joe has been floored twice before due to his open attacking style and being caught without seeing it coming. The intriguing thing is that this is what Hopkins is brilliant at - countering accurately with a single shot. Nobody has outboxed Joe or got anywhere near to establishing the upper hand with a jab so this will be a waste of time if Hopkins tries it. So he won't (find the compubox numbers for how many jabs Hopkins threw in the Wright (southpaw) fight). Hopkins wants JC to try and control the fight, he wants him to take risks, to dive in and launch flurries. Tactically, if Joe is unable to bully Hopkins by throwing him off balance, giving him a chance to land and crucially, if Hopkins isn't drawn into a slugging match (highly unlikely) then he has the perfect game to end Calzaghe's winning record.

A high paced fight results in a Calzaghe win, probably by stoppage. A slow paced fight as a result of Hopkins repeatedly landing the right hand when Joe gets too close takes away everything good about Calzaghe - the combinations, the handspeed, the power, the fitness and stamina. Then what we have left is a broken man with nothing left to do than desperately try to stop the contest - this is further bad news and could end in an embarrasing defeat.
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FANTASTIC POST!!!!

One of the best I have read on here regarding this fight.

:good

sues2nd · Apr 10, 2008

Decebal said:

Hopkins
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lost to Taylor twice
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.

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beat Winky
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.

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Enough said.

Let's not pee our pants here. He's no Superman.
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Sorry Dec...had to fix your post for you!!!

:hey

Fat Joe · Apr 10, 2008

PrideOfWales said:

The build up to this fight has been different to any previous Calzaghe fight I can remember. The reasons are many: fighting outside of Europe for the first time, fighting at a different weight for the first time, fighting an older man for a change, none of his belts on the line etc etc... But the one aspect that could make all the difference is the intelligence (in the ring) of his opponent. I don't think anybody else has brought the ring smarts to the table that Hopkins will bring come Saturday week. Defensively, Hopkins is better than Calzaghe's best victims, much better. Hopkins counterpunching ability allied to this defence, in combination with Joe's sometimes ragged and open southpaw style make Calzaghe a sitting duck for a booming right hand straight on the button. Joe normally doesn't worry too much if he misses a few punches in his combinations (see the Manfredo finish - he missed them all), he simply continues with his unrelenting output... a barrage which has seen him "stop" his opponents by overwhelming them. Some call it conning the ref - regardless, it's always been Calzaghe's style and his intentions are to throw as many punches as possible, not to sit there and pick the right one.

In Las Vegas, it's supposed to be a proper fighters venue where fights don't get stopped until the very last moment and referees won't tolerate slapping. Let's hope Calzaghe refrains from the latter punching technique and sticks to what he did in the Kessler and Lacy fights.

Frank Warren has kept Calzaghe under close tabs for a lot of years, letting him fight boxers everyone knew he would beat. Only once in the whole time that Joe has been WBO champion has he started as underdog in a fight: against Jeff Lacy. If you look back at the reasons why Lacy was favourite, it was as much that Calzaghe looked awful in encounters with Evans Ashira (labouring, limping to a dull 12 round decision) and Kabary Salem (getting dropped and roughed up by nothing more than a journeyman) than Lacy was looking impressive. Everyone involved in the UK knew that Calzaghe looks his best against come forward, aggressive fighters when Joe is properly prepared. Joe was properly prepared and Lacy happened to be one paced. All very good. But see what happens when boxers leave the initiative to Calzaghe - David Starie, Jimenez, Robin Reid - Joe looks less than stellar... in fact, in those fights he looked distinctly average. He's fighting arguably the best boxer in the world at setting traps for boxers just like Calzaghe to barge straight into with wide eyed gumption. Joe has been floored twice before due to his open attacking style and being caught without seeing it coming. The intriguing thing is that this is what Hopkins is brilliant at - countering accurately with a single shot. Nobody has outboxed Joe or got anywhere near to establishing the upper hand with a jab so this will be a waste of time if Hopkins tries it. So he won't (find the compubox numbers for how many jabs Hopkins threw in the Wright (southpaw) fight). Hopkins wants JC to try and control the fight, he wants him to take risks, to dive in and launch flurries. Tactically, if Joe is unable to bully Hopkins by throwing him off balance, giving him a chance to land and crucially, if Hopkins isn't drawn into a slugging match (highly unlikely) then he has the perfect game to end Calzaghe's winning record.

A high paced fight results in a Calzaghe win, probably by stoppage. A slow paced fight as a result of Hopkins repeatedly landing the right hand when Joe gets too close takes away everything good about Calzaghe - the combinations, the handspeed, the power, the fitness and stamina. Then what we have left is a broken man with nothing left to do than desperately try to stop the contest - this is further bad news and could end in an embarrasing defeat.
Click to expand...

Most one sided crock of shite I've ever read.

sues2nd · Apr 10, 2008

JohnLlew said:

Most one sided crock of shite I've ever read.
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What???

If anything its QUITE unbiased. Do you even KNOW the difference???

brooklyn1550 · Apr 10, 2008

JohnLlew said:

Most one sided crock of shite I've ever read.
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:huh

PrideOfWales is still picking Calzaghe, but he took the time to construct a fair, well-balanced, post acknowledging the other possibility.

And even if most people think Calzaghe will destroy Hopkins, anything is possible in boxing

Decebal · Apr 10, 2008

brooklyn1550 said:

:huh

PrideOfWales is still picking Calzaghe, but he took the time to construct a fair, well-balanced, post acknowledging the other possibility.

And even if most people think Calzaghe will destroy Hopkins, anything is possible in boxing
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brooklyn1550 - these arguments presented here, eloquent as they were, are arguments that we've made in the past many a time and taken into consideration when picking Calzaghe, you will admit, right?:huh

brooklyn1550 · Apr 10, 2008

Decebal said:

brooklyn1550 - these arguments presented here, eloquent as they were, are arguments that we've made in the past many a time and taken into consideration when picking Calzaghe, you will admit, right?:huh
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Yeah, but he went into greater detail so I respect him for that. I also respect the fact that he was able to acknowledge the possibility of a Hopkins victory, or at the very least, give a breakdown of how Hopkins could win. Most big Calzaghe fans aren't even willing to type 'Hopkins has a chance.'

Decebal · Apr 10, 2008

brooklyn1550 said:

Yeah, but he went into greater detail so I respect him for that. I also respect the fact that he was able to acknowledge the possibility of a Hopkins victory, or at the very least, give a breakdown of how Hopkins could win. Most big Calzaghe fans aren't even willing to type 'Hopkins has a chance.'
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That wasn't us, though, brooklyn, was it?:huh

We analysed the whole thing carefully and objectively; we didn't start from the conclusion, working backwards, did we?:huh

brooklyn1550 · Apr 10, 2008

Decebal said:

That wasn't us, though, brooklyn, was it?:huh

We analysed the whole thing carefully and objectively; we didn't start from the conclusion, working backwards, did we?:huh
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No:good

Fat Joe · Apr 10, 2008

brooklyn1550 said:

Yeah, but he went into greater detail so I respect him for that. I also respect the fact that he was able to acknowledge the possibility of a Hopkins victory, or at the very least, give a breakdown of how Hopkins could win. Most big Calzaghe fans aren't even willing to type 'Hopkins has a chance.'
Click to expand...

He went a bit far though with that 'conning refs' + 'broken and embarrassed' shite.

brooklyn1550 · Apr 10, 2008

JohnLlew said:

He went a bit far though with that 'conning refs' + 'broken and embarrassed' shite.
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Perhaps. I thought you meant the entire post in general. My apologies.

sues2nd · Apr 10, 2008

JohnLlew said:

He went a bit far though with that 'conning refs' + 'broken and embarrassed' shite.
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You have never heard the phrase "conning the ref"....where a fighter throws a barage of punches (rarely landing much) and doesnt allow the opponent to fight back...therefore conning the ref into the thinking the fighter is out and stopping the fight.

Its exactly what happened in the Manfredo fight.

PrideOfWales · Apr 10, 2008

JohnLlew said:

He went a bit far though with that 'conning refs' + 'broken and embarrassed' shite.
Click to expand...

Replace "conning refs" with "undeniably premature stoppages" if it makes you feel any better. It's something which you yourself admitted feeling uneasy about watching this:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Joe%2BCalzaghe/video/x4roa6_joe-calazaghe-not-bad-for-a-slapper_sport

The broken and embarrased thing will happen if Joe is tactically naive in this fight.

Fat Joe · Apr 10, 2008

Yeah a bit like RJJ V Thornton, agreed Manfredo was premature.

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The argument for a Bernard Hopkins win

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The argument for a Bernard Hopkins win

twenty1 Final Destruction Full Member

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