The Baer's Were HUGE

a bit random like

but they seem to get heights wrong quite a lot so it might be something too do with that

 

Yeah they were. Max's son (Jethro) was pretty big too 6'4".

 

If Liston had fought in a later era, no one would picture him as a "big bear" because he was, in fact, at 6'0 1/2 204-212lbs nothing special, size-wise.


You do have to take into account that retired fighters in a suit always tend to look bigger, especially compared to someone in lean shape wearing only boxing trunks. Everyone gains a few pounds after 35 and shoes can make you look one inch taller as well. Though i do think Max was 6'3".

 

6' 5" was the height actually claimed in the TV guide profiles back in the 1960's when he was very well known as Jethro.

But the Baers were huge. An interesting issue would be why there were so many giant heavyweights in the 1910 to 1940 era, and so relatively few really outsize contenders in the 1940 to 1970 era.

 

I think Sonny was more 6-1 1/2 - either way he was still a BIG man, just listing a fighters height and weight is an incomplete story - Sonny had one of the longest reaches in the history of the sport, the biggest fists, probably didn't spend much time pumping iron and taking steroids either.

Watch Sonny 'fight big' against genuine superheavies like Williams (who had a longer reach and was all round a bigger man then Wladimir Klitschko). Can your your average 6- 1, 210lb man fight like Sonny? Nah, but Sonny isnt the average 210 man, he's the Big Bad Bear

 

He is listed anything between 6'0 and 6'1 1/2. He looks between 6'0 and 6'1 to me. 212 lbs was just as much in 1960 as it was today, it does tell the story objectively.

As for the reach, that is just measured wingspan. On film it is clear that Williams has a longer actual reach than Liston. Williams is measured at 79" or 81", depending on your source.

I don't really know if you're trying to wind me up or not, but what makes you say that Williams was bigger than Klitschko?


Williams: 6'3", 216 lbs, lean shape.
Klitschko: 6'6", 248lbs, lean shape.

Williams was not a superheavyweight. But in his day he was an anomoly i suppose. Great fights between him and Liston.

 

A fighter in 1960 needed the stamina to fight 15 hard rounds; Sonny basically trained 'old school' - no 'supplements' and iron pumping.

Which is what reach is numbnuts. Sonny also had freakishly long arms. Or do you think his shoulders were a yard wide? Ok then surely he's not your average 210lb man? Which way you want it? Liston's reach is 84", that's fact unaltered by time.

WLad has the same arm length as Chris Byrd, he doesn't have a long reach for a big man.

There is a big difference between being in shape to go 15 hard rounds and being in shape to do what Klitschko does (jab 'n' grab for a maximum of 12 against inept opposition). Wlad has a history of gassing as early as FIFTH ROUND, see him gasping like a goldfish out of water before being impaled by Brewster.

Williams, lean shape for a boxer
Klitschko, lean shape for an amateur bobybuilder

Plus, Waldo is not nor ever has been 248, usually weighing around 240.

With bodybuilding and steroids Williams would have been way over 240lbs.

 

Max was 6 2 1/2,huge chest with terrific expansion,but his biceps werent as big as Sonny,s ,Liston had a 44 chest ,which for 6 1/2-6 1 is big wouldnt you say?Interestingly Dempsey,s biceps were 16 1/2 for a man 190 thats massive. If you check out the B movie "The Prize Fighter And The lady",you can get an idea just how big Max was,of course he had a small waist ,which emphasised his chest,but he was really built.

 

True, but it is worth noting that Liston only went 12 once and never beyond that. Guys like Lyle and Foreman had to go 15 as well, didn't stop them from being bigger.

If wingspan is what reach is, then why does Williams at 79 or 81" have a longer actual reach than Liston? Reach is just one measurement. Height, timing and speed are equally important in terms of what reach means.

I'm glad you said this, because i wanted to put this forth as my argument.
Measured arm length means next to nothing. Do you really think Klitschko's actual reach is even close to Byrd's?

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Before you start about inept competition, look up how many ranked contenders at that time Williams beat and how many Wlad, who still has 4-5 years left in him, beat.

And exactly what is the relevance for this debate of bringing up the first Brewster fight? Klitschko has fought at a pace of 50-60 punches a round several times. His preparation for the first Brewster fight was wrong, but since he trains more on boxing instead of conditioning, he didn't all of a sudden become a 6'1 212 big bad bear.

You know, that Klitschko guy is really something.

Not only is he an amateur bodybuilder whose accomplishments have already far exceeded Williams' (the real boxer), but he is a smaller man despite having 3 inches and 25 pounds on Williams!


Oh, and the steroid accusings are rather pathetic. Wlad has never failed to pass a test. In case you didn't know, steroids have been around since the 50's. For all we know, Williams and Liston may have used them too. But they are, like Wlad, innocent until proven otherwise.



Liston's size, outside of measured reach, is very similar to Byrd's. Sorry, i can't help it. 6'0 1/2 210 lbs was just as much in the 60's as it is today.

 

I agee. Sonny Liston was not a big heavyweight. I don't see how that could be so hard to understand. He was a big, strong guy, but he was not a big heavyweight. Also, I don't understand how a lot of people think that "BIG" heavyweights didn't exist until the present era. I mean, as has been stated in this thread, the Baer brothers were pretty big guys - especially Buddy Baer - and Primo Carnera was just under 6'6" and what, 275-pounds? I'm not saying those big guys were great fighters, but they were BIG heavyweights. Big people existed way back in the early-1900's and prior.

 

Was going to give an indepth response before I saw this. You are way, way beyond help.

Chris Byrd and Sonny Liston are the same size...wow.

 

Hey, watch out with that objectivity and rationalism. That will not be tolerated in these parts.

 

Let's compare how beyond help i am.

I see:

Byrd, listed as 6'1 213lbs
Liston, listed as 6'0 1/2, 212lbs

And i draw the insane conclusion that "Liston's size, outside of reach, is very similar to Byrd's".

You see:

Wlad Klitschko, listed as 6'6 244lbs
Cleveland Williams, listed as 6'3 216lbs

And you say: "Williams had a longer reach and was the alround bigger man than Klitschko".

 

If two fighters are roughly the same height and weight, then they are roughly the same size! Sure, there are going to be differences in their measurements, but overall, they are roughly the same size.