the best fighter at jnr middle!

Hearns #1 for overall best.
Jackson #2 for sheer knockout excitement.
McCallum #3 for boxer smarts.
There were some other greats that past through this weightclass: Robinson, Leonard, McClellan, ODLH, Duran, etc.......

 

Head to head Benitez can sure merit consideration in the top 5.

 

Put it this way, if Hearns decided to stay at 154 and make a career of that division he would never have had trouble making the weight. I think we agree tho.

Yes, exactly as i said.

Of course he did, the guy was trying to be a fully fledged middleweight to cope with guys like Hagler and co.

 

JT. Yeah, if you read the first post I replied to below, all i said was he struggled to make 154lbs for the Medal fight. You disagreed, now your agreeing.

"Hearns made his last defense of his WBC title against Medal, June 1986. And he struggled at the weight, as his two fights prior to meeting Medal fight were Schuler and Hagler at middleweight".

And not too sure Hearns could have made a career at 154lbs, even if he never moved up and fought Hagler and Schuler before dropping back down. He would have had to move up at some point.

 

Give me a quick quote of where i disagreed per above so i can address it Robbi.

 

Hearns made his last defense of his WBC title against Medal, June 1986. And he struggled at the weight, as his two fights prior to meeting Medal fight were Schuler and Hagler at middleweight.

Your reply:Hearns moved up to 160 via pure choice, not because he struggled to make 154. Not at all. He chose to go up, remember he went all the way to 175 to nab title 4 before title 3 if you get my jist. Of course this didn't mean he struggled to make 160 either.



The part of your reply which I assume your disagreeing "He moved up to 160 via pure choice, not because he struggled to make 154". Your replying to me saying he struggled to make 154lbs against Medal.

 

I can't quite follow your reasoning. Hearns actively went after the fight vs Hagler. This was pure choice. He'd whupped Duran in the one decent money fight available at 154. He then had bigger fish to fry, namely Hagler. He failed. To get Hagler again he had to go thru Schuler at 160, which he did with ease in an elimination bout. He'd now had two bouts at a fully fledged 159 3/4 and 160. Modern trends meant he didn't fight these fights at his normal substancially lighter weight, and nor did he simply add on the weight thru milk, steak and ice cream. He didn't fight at 154 for almost 2 full years. Given the extra muscle bulk he had gained for the assault at 160 as well as the timelines above if was hardly surprising he had trouble getting back to 154. By comparison his dwelving into 175 was far shorter lived at first but even after that he had very few fights again at 160.

 

154 historically is really not much of a division, especially when the likes of Winky Wright can be placed in peoples top ten.

I wouldn't hold Benitez back at all for not fighting there long.He was a great fighter and would likely beat almost every fighter that ever fought at the weight.

 

JT, you quoted on me soley saying he struggled to make the weight against Medal, then you said he never struggled with 154lbs at all, it was pure choice. I agreed with that in a later post and mostly all of the above, but go back to the first quote. Once you read my post then your quote it kinda sounds like your disagreeing, either than or your you not quoting me accurately.

 

To make things simplier, forget everything else apart from the following.

Quote:
Hearns made his last defense of his WBC title against Medal, June 1986. And he struggled at the weight, as his two fights prior to meeting Medal were Schuler and Hagler at middleweight.

Your reply: Hearns moved up to 160 via pure choice, not because he struggled to make 154. Not at all. He chose to go up, remember he went all the way to 175 to nab title 4 before title 3 if you get my jist. Of course this didn't mean he struggled to make 160 either

 

Well let me say Hearns never struggled to make 154 before "deciding" to campain in earnest at 160. Hows that?

:hey

 

Agreed. Before he fought Hagler at middleweight, then later Schuler, he never struggled at 154lbs. But he did struggle after moving back down to 154lbs to face Medal after both those fights?

 

Well simple. Hearns chose to go seriously to 160 before your Medal fight, which is exactly as i implied. BEFORE this he hadn't struggled to make 160 at all. You say it yourself, his two prior fights were at 160. Follow? You are speaking past tense per my statement when talking of the Medal fight, the horse had already bolted (Hearns had already started to campain at 160 in earnest)

Timeline

Hearns beats Benitez at 154
Hearns weighs 157 and beats Sutherland
Hearns beats Minchillo weighing 153
Hearns whups Duran weighing 153 3/4
Hearns beats Hutchings at 154 (Hearns not struggling to make 154 at all at this point)

Hearns fights Hagler at 160
Hearns fight Schuler at 160

Hearns struggles to make 154 vs Medal after "choosing" to campain at 160 seriously in the two years prior.

How we travellin' now mate?

 

Read my last post. Somehow we ended on totally different wave lengths.