The Best Fighter Of The Last 30 Years ????

Good list although Id put HAgler #3

 

I hope this doesn't come across as a troll post because I would like to get people's opinion on the questions I am going to raise about SRL.

SRL at his peak may well be the best fighter of the last 30 years, but does he owe that more to athletic ability than boxing ability, much as Roy Jones Jnr?

The reason I ask is that as he got older, he did worse against Hearns in the rematch, was terribly dominated and dropped twice by Norris, and stopped by Camacho as well.

Now obviously SRL wasn't as committed to the sport as he was in his golden period of 1980 to 1982, but does those performances I mentioned indicate that he lacked the same defensive skills of many great fighters, but it was only when his athletic abilities came back to the pack, that he didn't look so great anymore?

Is that a valid way to assess a fighter, or is it a case that once a fighter is past prime, the deterioration varies so much, we should only be focussing on fighters as they were in their prime?

 

Fair assestment Kerrigan.
I think SRL just fell in love with SRL. I think noticing his physical attributes where so complete far beyond his contemporaries that he stopped developing them, especially his defensive skills.

 

Leonard is a tough one to guage.......how far up should he be rated?
Personally I think this board and this thread especially are overrating him.......past the first Hearns fight in which Leonard showed alot of guts and just willed himself over the top for victory.......he pretty much picked and chose fighters that were declining.

He came back for Hagler after seeing Hagler look slower and more beatable vs Mugabi, and then he came back again after Hearns looked completely and totally shot in a fight Hearns got a gift in against James Kinchen.

I respect Leonard and see him as a great fighter, but how can anyone rate a fighter this high when he did not take on all comers in the divsisions he fought in.

Leonard was a pick and a choser to the highest degree, never testing his skills against younger stronger fighters in his on again off again comebacks after announcing retirements.


You are right to question this, and certainly your post imo has merit.


Exellent post Kerrigan.

 

agree with divac: not a troll post but a very good one:thumbsup

duranimal has made many of the same points in the past but they get lost in his hatred of all things leonard

leonard's career was great and if you look at his opponents, nearly a 3rd of his fights (or more) were against HOF

looking closer though
-he fought an unmotivated and untrained benitez
-lost CLEARLY to duran
-beat hearns in a classic
-had one decent and one meaningless win against duran
-beat an ancient hagler
-"drew" with hearns
-lost badly to norris
-lost badly to camacho

if you take out the camacho and norris losses, then you take out the hagler and duran wins and how does he look then?

 

This thread shouldn't die yet.

 

Well its going to die out pretty fast.....the reason being that though Leonard is winning this poll by a landslide.
Most who voted for him did'nt live his era.
They're just looking at his record at boxrec and looking at the names, Benitez,Duran, Hearns, Hagler, but not looking at his resume or the story behind everyone of those victories against big names.

You cant have debate about Leonard when those giving him the high accolades dont know anything about him or his fights.

 

Leanord is a sure thing. But Hagler and JCC are just a bit behind him

 

i'm a bit surprised that a poster of your quality wrote such a bias post against leonard jorodz.

- benitez was a great fighter, not only that but an undefeated great fighter when leonard beat him

- duran1 was a great fight. where would leonards legacy stand now if he had actually beat duran in montreal by going toe to toe with one of the greatest toe to toe fighters of all time. it was a ridiculous tactic from leonard but it summed up his guts, his ability to fight in adversity and put everything on the line. clearly is also an overstatement, duran won but it was a close fight.

- beat an ancient hagler? i love hagler but i hate that opinion people have. hagler was still great, for me the mugabi performance was a great and totally underestimated performance where hagler broke down the spirit and belief of a very good agressive undefeated boxer. remember leonard had only had one fight in 5 years before he fought hagler and yet he fought at middleweight for the 1st time ever and beat one of the greatest middleweights of all time in the middle of a great winning streak. that win from leonard should never be underestimated by anyone imo and whats more leonard did it by stayin in the pocket and going toe to toe for a lot of that fight. hagler wasn't peak but he was still the best middleweight in the world and leonards victory was great.

- the norris and camacho fights are the equivelant of your guy jones jnr losing to danny green and hopkins 2, leonard shouldn't have even been in the ring, prime for prime he would have eaten those 2.

 

i agree with most of your points, i just think leonard's resume, like many fighters, could be re-evaluated from time to time.

the point can be made that leonards wins are better on paper than they are in reality. there is a context to every fight and leonard could be very selective with who and more importantly, WHEN, he fought.

having said that though 3 of his best wins- benitez, duran 2, hearns-were when his opponents were in their primes or in durans case, JUST past. you're right about the first duran fight and honestly, i'm more of a fan of leonard for his performance losing that than winning the next 2

the hagler win i go back and forth over. it is true that hagler was on a roll but it's also true that he looked very...sloppy at times against mugabi. leonard choose to wait until hagler was his most vulnerable and yet most bankable to take the fight. that irks me a bit

quality post from you and good discussion banger:thumbsup

 

Too say that SRL is the overall best boxer these last 30 years is a ****in JOKE

He's carears far to short & littered with controversy, agreed he fought in an era that was packed with real bad men & it took a fighter of exceptional courage & skill to navigate those waters but too make him out to be some all conquering dominating master craftsman is just pure fistic ignorence.

Benitez was a close tight fight & Leonard was made too look as if he was fighting underwater in that fight & Duran well & truly outthought/outfought & outboxed Leonard in Montreal & **** all to do with this imbicile perseption that he fought the wrong fight, that was just an angelo dundee damage limitation exercise.

The New Orleans fiasco was just that, no way was Leonard embarrising duran as Bill Butcher sez, absolute crap!! Duran embarrased himself!! Go watch that snooze fest, leonard did **** all, he fought a tentitive fight & if that had been any other opponant in the ring with duran they would have bood the house down, Leonard did nothing & duran did less, the scorecards had it 2/2/1 for Leonard before Duran jumped ship.

Then we get the AYAB KALULI fight at Lt/Middle which again saw Leonard gifted a stoppage just at the time when Kaluli was starting to smack a gassing Leonard all around the ring with the crowd roaring him on & the relief on Leonards face said it all & he would have been in serious **** in another 3/4 rounds, Leonard never had what it took too fight outside 147 hence his phoney retirement when faced with the daunting challenge of Hagler in 82. Against Hearns he was having his head boxed off & had lost the fight untill that incredible rally in the 13th round, over 12 rounds he's lost the fight!!!

Kevin Howard at 154 gave Leonard fits & dropped him until again another gift stoppage saved the Leonard BRAND & another I quit for good retirement statement. He said i coming back to get his old title's back from Curry & McCrory but after the Howard debacle he new he'd get hammered. I leave out the Hagler fight as Hagler got what he deserved in some ways by selling himself out to become a clown act in the Leonard circus by conceding too everything Leonard wanted.

The Donny LaLonda disgrace just about sums Leonard up, no level playing field here as he makes Lalonde come in at the S/Middle limit & steals LaLonde's Lt/heavy title into the bargain. In this weeks BOXING NEWS 7th October interview with LaLonde "Quote" Ray & i had a private agreement that for every pound i came in at over 168, i would be fined $1 MILLION. He did the same catchweight bull**** in the Hearns re-match & was gifted the draw & then pulled the same stunt with Duran in the 3rd fight that if Duran came in over 160 he'd also forfiet 1MILLION per pound which terrified Duran so much he starved himself down to 158.5 in case he lost money & would'nt be able to pay his back tax bill.

The Hearns re-match was close but did anyone think that Leonard won against a faded & weight contracted Hearns NAH!! & Duran could'nt have given a **** as long as he got paid.

Leonard was a master manipulator & never ever gave anyone a re-match, he could have come back in 83, he said as much that if Duran beats Hagler he's def coming back but as we all witnessed in the Howard fight that LEONARD was finished as a top fighter, he could'nt cut it at Lt/middle even in 81 when Kaluli smacked him about plenty & 84 when journeman Howard forced him into retirement.

Leonard was finished & he knew it, but he's a super smart bizzenessman & along with the sycophantic media who fuelled the ego of Leonard at every occasion have help create this myth that Leonard was the all dominating force of his time........just not true!!

Great box/fighter & a genuine undisputed champion who snatched victory from the jaws of certain defeat against Hearns gets my praise + fighting in a talent packed era but not the dominating presence as all are led to believe.

He would have been beaten if he'd hung around by Curry more that likely as Leonard was'nt that hard too hit & he would have slowed down in a year or two. Would Leonard have been lorded the way he is without the SUGAR monickar, i doubt it:smoke

 

would you expect anything less?

 

Staying in the pocket and going toe to toe?

Are you delusional?atsch

 

Agree. SRL over a Prime Benitez was a great effort.

Considering that Duran was a natural lightweight(albeit the greatest lightweight of all time), was it really that ridiculous for Leonard to try and go toe to toe with him?

Seriously, watch Hagler against Tony Sibson or Wilfred Scypion(both fights on YouTube), there you will see a peak Hagler and not the slow plodder that entered the ring against SRL in 1987.

 

Correct:yep

As i said in an earlier post that SRL was a very smart & savvy businessman as well as being a very smart fighter. He knew that fighting Hagler in 82 would have spelt certain fistic & more importantly financial doom for the Leonard "BRAND" where was there to go after a defeat at the hands of Hagler? except for a re-match with Hearns or Benitez at 154 or a 3rd fight with a well prepared & motivated Duran would have been fraught with risk at 154.

As i said earlier IMO Leonard just could'nt cut it outside 147 & proberbly would have lost to all 3. Benitez at 154 would have beaten him & so would have Hearns & the Duran of Cuevas & Moore also, so thats the end of the $$$ BRAND or do a Floyd Mayweather & take a vacation till all of the above have beaten the crap out of each other & then step back in too mop up the damaged goods:yep

It's not the case of Leonard not wanting to fight Hagler back in 82 as Leonard would have loved the challenge for his ego as he's a super competitive athlete, but he knew what the bigger picture held for him after the Kalule fight that by taking on a peak Hagler over 15 rounds would be the end, proberbly by TKO around 10.

This fight is on par today with Mayweather/Pacquiao in that it was the match up the whole world wanted & demanded but as in both cases the respective recipients (Leonard/Mayweather) of the mythical P4P status both found away to avoid these head on challenges. We thought the fight was a cert when Leonard called a big press conference & got Hagler too attend & then pulls the I'am retiring stunt:-( but we know why:yep Hagler would have done a slow dissection of Leonard in true Hagler style if they'd fought back in 82/85, Hagler was too fast/accurate & powerfull for Leonard back then & over 15 rounds he'd never see the final bell even if he had a judge in the bag as was that nut "Jose Juan Guerra" who gave it 118/110 to Leonard in 87.

This is a $$$$$ business & the SRL BRAND was the $$$$$$$$$$$ & what ever Leonard said went & $$$$$$$$$$$$ would follow & everyone connected with the media loved him for this. Hence his ability too manipulate boxing the way he did back then, a master manipulator indeed:deal