The best fighter who did the least training.

Duran lost because he was in there with a better man with a better gameplan. :good

He never has any excuses for winning.

 

There is no deny of Leonard's skills and efforts. Sure he did what it took to win.

But it is stil irking, anyway, to see how reckless Duran was atsch

 

Spot on:yep But as usual this will go over the boxrec clowns heads & lets not forget about the little matter ov a certain Mr Don King here, arcel & brown told King that Duran can't fight in November due 2 his weight & wanted it 4 January 81, but King was having none ov it as what with the $9 MILLION that was up 4 grabs as the Leonard managment threatened King that unless Duran made the NOV 25 date they'd go 4 a Cuavas fight who held the WBA crown. No excuses here for Duran but he was surrounded by bloodsuckers who never gave a **** about him & just abandoned him straight after.

Even his old mentor & backer Carlos Eleta said "Quote" Duran was finished so we had 2 cash in, he would'nt train & just wanted 2 party so it was only a matter ov time before some bum beat him.

All credit 2 Leonards managment team offering $9MILLION as bait & that was 29 ****in years ago & the $$$$ would only be released (As it was paid up FRONT into a Panamanion bank) when Duran climbed through the ropes so hence the Duran management did anything legal/illegal 2 get Duran into the ring in whatever shape as this was there final big pay-off payday.

I've long accepted the outcome ov this fight & it's ramifications but the real nuts & bolts about what happended are only just coming 2 light & with no little thanks 2 Leonard himself.

A lot of fight fans would view Leonards antics/methods in this fight & future ones a disgrace but he's obviously well read in the age old military tennets ov the "ART OF WAR" & that is 2 marshall your strengh at your opponants weakest point & flatter/bribe/goad or whatever it took 2 get it stacked your way, **** all wrong with that in real life but it ai'nt boxing 2 me,

Morally Leonard should have fought a peak Duran if he wanted 2 lay the ghost & he still pulled the same stunt on Duran in 1989 making Duran boil down too 160 & for every ounce over Duran forfiet a cool $1MILLION, but there ai'nt no moralls when it comes 2 the fight game.

I'am a big respecter of Leonards mental/boxing skills as he's fought-em all as well but deeeeeep down in Leonards soul there is & allways will be that night in Montreal when both were at their unrivalled peaks & DURAN BEAT HIM FAIR & SQUARE:happy

 

Oh, excuses for a legend losing a fight. That must be the truth. Just as Dempsey was either starved or took a dive (take your pick) against Flynn, Liston had his life threatened by the Black Muslims before Clay, Tyson snorting all the coke in Columbia and ****ing every ***** in Tokyo before Douglas, Bowe becoming shot over night before Golota etc, etc...

****ING BULL****. I'm so sick of these excuses. Say what you will, but it's easy to see on film that Duran isn't even winded when he quits. He just can't get into the fight and can't handle this fact. So he quits. End of ****ing story.

Fighters in far worse condition has put up far better resistance. That, and that Leonard won, are undisputabe facts. The rest are the same loose speculation that follows EVERY fight where a popular and mythologized fighter loses in embarassing circumstances.

And by the way, losing 10 lbs over 3 days aren't that special. It has been done over a day. It's commonplace to weigh 10-15 pounds less at weigh-in than at actual fight night. Those pounds are lost the days preceeding weigh-in and consists of water basically.

 

dealdeal

 

Well, I understand all the "What if?" and "shoulda, woulda, coulda" surrounding the Leonard-Duran fights. And yep, we can always wonder if Leonard would have been able to defeat a fit Duran, but it is not Leonards' fault that Duran let himself to be drained by the leeches. Leonard and his manager were just smart and tried to maximize their odds as much as possible.

If Duran let himself to get sucked in a disadvatageous bout, he can only blame himself. I am a Duran fan, but I can't help myself but wish Duran had been more street-wise and down to earth.

Trying to play as many cards as possible in your favor is a long-time boxing tradition, and a professional boxer needs to be prepared for that kind of "tricks", because more frequently than not, the guy with the upper hand will try to stack the conditions in his favor.

 

Lucky for poor Duran then that he has his legions of fanboys making excuses for him.

By the way, show me this dehydrated, out of shape, exhausted Duran. Because I haven't been able to spot him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOPackn1YYk

 

Mando Ramos & Bobby Chacon were notorious for partying in thier haydays as world champions. & not training properly.

 

Clearly with that preparation, and against another great in Leonard, Duran had no real chance. Once Leonard realised in the ring how little Duran had in the tank he toyed with him and taunted him. Duran of course was too proud a fighter to take that kind of sh_t from anybody and quit.

 

it is amazing the quote comes from leonard on how they wanted to make sure duran did not have time to get into proper shape, but somehow it is the duran fans making excuses. understand leonards statement shows that he wanted no parts of an in shape roberto duran.

 

Agree to a point.

From the quotes of the time Leonard's flatten spirits were lifted when the plot was hatched to jump on an out-of-condition Duran. It may be stretching it to suggest that he wanted no part of an in shape Duran (but hey, there may well be quotes to that extent that I'm not aware of).

Credit to Leonard for conceeding the facts later on.

 

I have to agree, on the film Duran looks in pretty good shape, but what happens in this fight is that Leonard have another gameplan, he don´t stand and fight with Duran, he moves and fight´s a lot from the outside, Duran can´t fight this way, Leonard is to fast for him, after a while Leonard starts to get under his skin and I think that is what´s beat Duran, nothing else, when Leonard start his showboating it get´s to much for proud Duran and it makes Duran look silly that he can´t hit an open target. I think that was what made the "no mas" comment. Duran couldn´t take it mentaly, that someone made him look so bad, he was to macho for that.
Boxing is about fightplans and the first time Sugar Ray fought Durans fight you could say, he fought a better man THAT night in that type of fighting. The second fight Leonard changed his fightplan and Duran fought a better man THAT night. If leonard would have fought Duran the same way the first fight he would have won. It was the same with Hagler, Leonard had the better plan and the faster hands.
IMO
All the best
The predator

 

Interesting point of view. I have to agree with the (water) weight loss - unless the fighter is already "dried out" and still has 10 to go...

Also, let us not forget that Arcel maintained (in everything I've ever read) categorically that Duran WAS in shape for the second bout.

 

Suppose it all depends on interpretation of 'in shape' Wansen. Yes he was in shape in that he made weight. But....

from

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'Duran's training camp was a circus, and an amateur one at that. Even with the presence of Arcel, Freddie Brown and longtime aide-de-camp, Luis Henriquez, there was no control or voice of reason'.

Freddie Brown recalled, shortly before his death in 1985, just how bad Duran's entourage was and how much they took out of him from the moment his hand was raised in victory over Leonard:

"In my nearly 70 years in boxing," said Brown, "I've never seen a bigger bunch of losers in my life. Me and Ray (Arcel) and Carlos (Eleta) and Luis (Henriquez) did everything we could to convince Roberto 'dat 'dese punks were nothing...'dat 'dey were flies...'dat 'dey they were crap'.

'It hurt all of us to watch 'dose leeches suck all 'da fight out of him. 'Dey had him taking all 'dese pills and dieting and starving himself. 'Da final week before 'da fight was 'da woist. Duran was having trouble making weight, but 'dat's because he was eating late at night wit' all 'dese guys in his room'.

'In the final few days, he no longer wanted to hear what any of us had to say. He listened only to his entourage. 'Den he went out and lost 'da fight. And guess what? Afta' 'da fight, all of 'dose bums disappeared. Gone! Duran wasn't just fighting Leonard. He was fighting a few dozen guys, as well."

Comment: Doesn't sound like the kind of 'in shape' that was going to allow Duran to beat Leonard.

 

what about jimmy carter, i really know very little about him but i do know that he would lose his non title defense fights to show up and win the rematch in a title defense.