The Best Heavyweight Champion Ever, Is? And why?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Caelum, Aug 14, 2010.


  1. Caelum

    Caelum Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I never did rankings because I feel it is just not right for me to do or just to hard for me to do.
    It's easier to say they were all great. And maybe that's really the correct way of going about things because where do you start...how can you judge?

    Maybe I just need to get drunk and write down some names...all in fun. But is that respectful?
    It's not like my opinion holds weight, right?

    My question and thinking really is about how others come up with theirs...specifically the "historians."
    What makes them "experts" in the field or are they just simply given an opinion because they were asked?

    I tend to look more for what Fighters and/or Trainers have to say that made it on the elite level.
    Of course there is always bias but that's the given.

    When asked, I tend to look at just two for the top spot: Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali.
    Both were Great Champions. Served as Symbols for boxing and greater than just boxing because their names stretched into politics and the daily lives of people.

    Of course, I also think of Jack Johnson. The era in which he lived was full of racism. In a country where it was already dangerous to be Black, Jack Johnson, Black HW Champion chased down the labeled "HW Champion" {White} and beat him bad. He is said to have lived how he felt he should live, free, and paraded his smile everywhere he went.

    But what are we looking at to determine this?

    Competition?

    Record?
    Peak performance?
    Overall record performance?

    Could they adjust?

    Could they win past their prime?

    Could they shock the World?

    Choices they made as Champion?

    Did they hold the title with respect?

    Did they entertain the mob?

    Did they overcome adversity?

    Did they lead as Champions?


    What makes the Champion the Top Guy?


    Or is there a quick solution: Who was the best at what they did?




    So much to think about.




    Personal:

    It's interesting having these conversations with an Older Generation. I remember I had a conversation about boxing with my Grandfather when he was alive. I didn't even know he was into boxing. Usually we talked about the Military since he was WWII veteran and actually was in the military even before the war started. Or other things that he liked. But usually it was about me. What interests me interested him.

    So when I brought up boxing, it was interesting to find out what he thought.
    As we talked I realized I was out of my league. He had gone to many fights live back in the day: 30's, 40's, 50's, etc.
    I'm watching it all on TV and he is seeing it live in an era of Golden Champions.

    I spit out some names to see who he liked and it was interesting how he spoke about them. One Champion he seemed to just brush off a bit or at least it seemed that way which was the first time that made me really think about me not knowing anything. I was just looking at the hype I guess.
    Luckily ESPN Classics, some reading, and down the road, youtube was available so that I could see his fights.

    My Grandfather lived a hard life, had to grow up very fast to support his family after his Father died...off to the Military, and then later off to War.
    But there was One Man, only One Man, Champion, that made him light up.
    It was incredible.
     
  2. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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  3. ricardoparker93

    ricardoparker93 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Who was the guy who made him light up?
     
  4. Son of Gaul

    Son of Gaul Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If you're asking who the greatest champion was then it has to be Joe Louis. If you're asking who the greatest HW is, then it's Larry Holmes IMO. At his best, it's very difficult for me to see any HW beating him. Best jab ever. Best 1-2 ever. Sublime uppercut. Good footwork. Smooth. Efficient. Heart. The total package.
     
  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don´t see how it´s Ali. Ali lost as a champ, Louis did not. Just compare who they beat as champs and how they did. The best hw champ ever is Joe Louis.

    I think a list of greatest hw champs would look very different than a list of greatest heavyweights.
     
  6. Boxinglad123

    Boxinglad123 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Muhammad Ali - He came out on top when nobody thought he would against Liston and Foreman, shocking the world. He faced better heavyweights than any other champion (Frazier, norton, Foreman, Liston) even his lower class wins were fantastic (Quarry, Bonavena, Lyle, Bugner). The Golden age was boxing was MUHAMMAD ALI. Ali avenged his major defeats, only the two at the end of his career when he was feeling the effects of Parkinsons were not avenged. Ali made the choice as champion not to go to Vietnam, he lost 3 and a half years of his prime because of that and was never the same, but regained the heavyweight championship twice after.
     
  7. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Ali has FIVE wins all of which are better than any of Louis' wins.
     
  8. jaffay

    jaffay New Orleans Hornets Full Member

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    Joe Louis and Marciano come to mind as first
     
  9. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No. Two. But neither was during him beeing champ.
     
  10. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    Joe Louis...was the ultimate puncher/boxer..could end a bout with ANYONE at any time..but for further reasons, just see a bout of his before he became champion..vs Max Baer.
     
  11. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who can say...But to me I'll take this trio
    ! Jack Dempsey, for a three or four year prime was a bobbing and weaving
    two fisted dynamo with a no quit attitude....
    2 Joe Louis- the greatest two handed puncher that ever lived,and the
    greatest finisher in history'''
    3 Jack Johnson- purely what the oldtime writers who saw him at his peak.
    He would be a cat playing with mice [his opponents ].
    P.S. The above in any order...
     
  12. Tonifranz

    Tonifranz Active Member Full Member

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    Louis.

    12 years and 25 defenses. Nobody has come close to beating that record.
     
  13. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Joe Louis.. To me he was the perfect fighting machine..

    Fast Hands, Great Power through the entire fight you were never safe he could get you at anytime.. Louis threw the most perfect explosive combos.. There are so many things you could say about this man.. Joe Louis is The Greatest of all time!!
     
  14. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I don't think any heavyweight champion ever will..
     
  15. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    Joe Louis.

    Supreme dominance and unmatchable longevity as champion make him the best.