The Best Heavyweight Since Ali?

Holyfield from the Tyson fights could of beaten Lewis and Bowe pretty clearly.

 

You can't compare them to Foreman especially Zaire Foreman who was fighting like a crude brawler with very low ring IQ. The brothers are master boxer-punchers who fight tactically off the backfoot and have greatly refined boxing skill and ring generalship. Saying they would lose that many rounds to anyone is just lunacy. Vitali was never behind on points at the end of a fight in his entire career and Wladimir hardly ever loses rounds.

I'm not saying they would beat Ali but they wouldn't be down by that many rounds as you posted. They would have close, competitve tactical matches with him.

They sure as hell would have better chances of catching Ali with big shots than Foreman. In the Zaire fight, Foreman was throwing comically wide telegraphed hooks.
Wadimir throws straight lightning quick punches and Vitali throws punches with high workrate from all directions. Both of which are much harder to read and evade than Zaire Foreman's big telegraphed hooks.

 

This is true. However neither one of them has ever faced a boxer of Ali's speed and mobility. I'm talking 65 -67 Ali here.

I'm not saying they would beat Ali but they wouldn't be down by that many rounds as you posted. They would have close, competitve tactical matches with him.

Maybe.

I just don't see it.

I'm a fan of both Klitschkos, but there is no comparison between their levels of skill and speed and that of Ali.

I have Wlad as a top ten ATG (only just), and depending on where he goes from here, he could rise higher.

I have Vitali just inside the top 20.

h2h, that order is reversed, with prime Vitali being the tougher challenge.




Minor nitpick.

Vitali was trailing going into round 2 against Herbie Hide.

Very insignificant I know, but it gives Herbie the unique distinction of being the only man ever to be ahead against Vitali, at the end of any round of any of his fights.

Even if it was only for ONE round.:yep

 

The forum doesn't seem to share your prejudice, judging by the poll.:yep

 

Wladimir faced David Haye who is the same size as Ali, and of comparable hand and foot speed (albeit a much harder puncher). Wladimir kept him at the end of his jab, outmaneuvered him and completely dominated the fight.
Now I am not saying Haye is as good as Ali but here is an example of a fighter roughly Ali's size who had incredible hand speed and foot movement and it didn't perturb Wlad in the slightest.
Also Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers were great fighters who had tremendous hand and foot speed comparable to Ali and were both soundly out boxed and KO'd by Wlad.

In terms of textbook boxing technique Wladimir is probably the most correct HW champ since Joe Louis. He has all his bases covered on offense and defense and then some. His brother was less by the book but was still a very technically oriented HW.
Now Ali on the other hand, Ali had poor technique but was compensated by his reflexes and speed. We saw later in his career when his speed and reflexes eroded and became quite easy to hit(probably a factor to his rapidly deteriorating health). So Ali was faster but really was not more skillful than the Klitschkos.

Another thing to note would be the style clash. The Klitchkos are not the plodding sluggers that Ali beat in his career like a Zaire Foreman, Cleveland
Williams, Lyle or a Liston. They are supremely technical boxers. The jab of Wlad in particular is the best in boxing since the reign of Larry Holmes, maybe even better.
These skills would allow them to dictate the space and catch Ali making mistakes.
Of course lastly the Klitschkos would be by far the largest and tallest in shape HWs Ali would have stepped in the ring with. What is the significance of this fact? It would make them not as susceptible to Ali’s clinching tactics that he used to fatigue his smaller opponents.



All in all I believe that the Klitschkos would be among the toughest test for Ali and would have close competitive contests that could go either way. For the record I have Wlad ranked 4th alltime at HW and Vitali ranked at 8th respectively.

 

Clay is so overrated!

 

Clay is the greatest heavyweight of all time. DEAL WITH IT.

 

Only in the vacant corridors of that hollow structure that could only be generously referred to as your brain.

 

I concur. This isn't to say that he is not one of the best ever but people act as if he was unbeatable and could never possibly lose a fight.

 

You have some statements in there that indicate to me that the gulf between us is just too wide to bridge (Haye or Byrd being in any way comparable to Ali in speed or skill (I'm not necessarily talking text book skill here), or that Foreman or Liston were slow and plodding). so we'll leave it there.

Just for curiosity's sake, could you post your top 10 or 20 ?

 

Thats rich coming from a non entity like you. Clay/Ali is regarded by the experts as the finest heavyweight of all time.

Aren't you the idiot that tried to make the case for Vitali as some sort of heavyweight great despite the fact that the man is 0-2 against great fighters. Typical fan boy.

 

I appreciate that you can acknowledge a difference in opinion without stooping to the use of personal invective like many of the children on this forum. Here's my top ten:
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Wladimir Klitschko
5. Larry Holmes
6. Evander Holyfield
7. George Foreman
8. Vitali Klitschko
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Joe Frazier

 

Vitali Klitschko
Based on what?

 

LOL.
How has Haye 'incredible foot speed'?? In what fight did he display such speed of foot comparable to Ali?
Was it the Wlad fight where he stood in front of him for 12 rounds? And still Wlad still didn't come close to knocking him out?
Haye is an ambush fighter. His footwork is terrible. He can't throw anything but a simple 1-2 on the front foot because he leaves himself so off balance and out of position.
He never danced , circled and controlled the ring around his opponents in his entire career.
You are talking utter bollox.

Since Joe Louis:rofl:nut
Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis were all miles more skilfull and talented than Wlad.
Even lesser guys than them like Buster Douglas, Tommy Morrison, Tucker- had better jabbing technique and punch variation than Wald.

His defense is non-existent. Illegal bear hugging is not defense.

Parrying, slipping , stepping off, working off the backfoot and countering shots are all forms of textbook defense and Wlad does none of that.
He resorts to back humps because he is totally incapable of any sort of defensive boxing. He has no composure under fire , can't fire back and begins failing all over the place.

Wlad couldn't land a jab on Haye who was stood right in front of him. He would probably put his shoulders out of joint trying to land a jab on Ali.

Willaimson kicked Wlad ass in just 5 rounds doing an Ali impression. The closest Wlad ever came to a great mover like Ali was a very ordinary mover like Willaimson.
Wlad was made look like a confused dummy in that fight , quitting after Sleep dropped him on his ass.
That fact right there blows all your opinions out of the water.

Byrd and Chambers were great fighter?:nut

Byrd was shot to ****. He deserved to lose all 4 of his fights before fighting Wlad. His legs were completely gone. He literally stood in the centre of the ring right in front of Wlad. And Wlad still grabbed onto him every time he threw out a pitter patter jab.

Chambers was a moving fridge. Look at him against Povetkin. A heavy bag.If you think he moved like Ali its clear you are some kind of moron.

 

I can't believe Wladamablir Klitschko has almost as many votes as Holmes.


Nevermind, I just remembered which board I'm on. I can definitely believe it. :-(