The best HOMEGROWN BRITISH heavyweights of all-time ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Jul 20, 2015.


  1. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've been following boxing since the 70s. I've seen Farr. I know his story.

    I just think it's insulting for people to say -- oh, Tommy Farr was competitive with Joe Louis one night ... so he's the number one British heavyweight ever.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Again, you would have to give the nod to the person who beat more genuinely elite fighters, even if it meant that they took losses to do it.

    Especially when we are comparing the top British heavyweights, who all fell short of the very top level.
     
  3. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not really disagreeing with that.
     
  4. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am kind of high on the Bugner fight, maybe I believed the hype, but I was sold on Joe's confidence, and although I thought the Bomber would win, I got nervous once the bell went for the sixth.

    Farr was very flaky performance wise, even his pomp. But his bravery and chin cannot be questioned, and he would not be intimidated by Frank.

    It is the size issue that makes me think Bruno would come in confident and blast away, until the ref/corner saves Farr from himself. But I will concede as you mention, generally Frank struggled with class once the bell went for the second half of the bout.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He is not the #1 British heavyweight because he was competitive against Joe Louis.

    He is the #1 British heavyweight because he beat Max Baer, who is ultimately better than anybody that Cooper, Bugner, Bruno et al beat.

    When you throw in a faded Tommy Loughran, Walter Neusel, Jimmy Braddock (win in all but name), Red Burman, he starts to pull away from the other nominees.
     
  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bruno didn't tend to struggle with smaller guys who moved up to heavyweight and had a paltry 18% KO percentage against mainly lighter opponents.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Does any of this really matter?
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How do wins over Walter Neusel and Red Burman help him pull away? Who did Red Burman beat?

    He had a win (although the newsreels don't actually support that he deserved it) and a loss to Baer. And he was competitve in losing to Joe Louis. And he lost a bad decision to one of the worst champions ever (Braddock). Those are his claims to fame.

    Danny Williams beat Mike Tyson one night. He didn't just beat him, he stopped him. Danny Williams knocked off an undefeated Olympic Gold medalist Audley Harrison and derailed his career. Danny Williams won the Commonwealth and British titles. Danny Williams fought for the title against Vitali.

    Danny Williams also lost 25 times (actually far less than Farr). So I don't rate him.

    Farr doesn't pull away from anyone. You give him credit (whether he deserves it) for beating Baer. You note that Baer also beat him in the return. You note that he beat Burman, who was a contender then like a lot of guys are contenders now. And you realize his few major wins get offset by all the horrible losses he incurred.

    If he only lost to Baer and Louis, he'd be number one.

    But he lost to bum after bum as well. It adds up. Williams lost to so many bums, it's removed him from anyone considering him.

    Farr beat a few more names, and did well against better fighters, so he doesn't fall off the list. But you can't just dismiss all those losses as nothing.

    HE lost to those guys. Somebody else didn't. He did. And he didn't just lose at the start of his career ... he lost to poor fighters all through his career.

    It doesn't merit the top spot.
     
  9. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If people are trying to determine who wins a "series" between Bruno and Farr, the fact that Farr couldn't punch at all and Bruno most definitely could certainly does.

    Was Farr going to stretch Bruno? No.

    Well, Frank didn't lose too many decisions ...

    If Bruno didn't get stopped, he won.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    To be honest, I am not agonizing over who would have won a fight between them, because it is ultimately conjecture.

    If Farr has the better record on paper, then I am happy to hand him the #1 slot.
     
  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He doesn't have the better record on paper. Because you're only looking at four years of the paper. The other 20+ years you've refusing to look at.

    That's my point.

    Gotta go.
     
  14. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well just looking on paper his first fight was at 13 years of age! He lost 20 fights by the time he was 21!
    I get your point when comparing him with someone like Danny Williams but really when looking at Farr's career especially the circumstances of his early career and the times he fought in it's difficult to compare with any modern day fighters career.
    There's no doubt though that by the time he'd matured into a fully fledged heavyweight he could go in there with any heavyweight in the world and have a decent shot of winning.
    Could that really be the case with a Danny Williams or a Henry Cooper?
     
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    A lot of people might not want to here this but with Fury's size 6'9 250lb, speed, movement, and range, he would defeat most of the smaller british heavyweight greats of the past.

    Also David Haye at 6'3 215lb with great reflexes, handspeed, two fisted knockout power, and excellent finishing skills..he would knock out most of the 175-195lb british heavyweight greats.