The best HW never to hold the lineal title.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jul 26, 2016.


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  1. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is ridiculous. Especially the last part Wlad has even admitted to Vitali being better. That's called being humble.
    Besides the argument wasn't who was better it was who has the better resume. And it's Wlad by a lot. You even try to bolster Vitali's by including losses in an effort to use Lewis's name to upgrade his standing. Let's go by wins.
    Wlad has: Prime Povetkin Prime: Byrd Prime: Haye Prime: Chagaev Prime: Chambers Prime: Sam Peter Prime: McCline Prime: Pulev
    Vitali's resume just doesn't compare. Yes he doesn't have the bad losses. Although the losses Wlad suffered to Purrity and Brewster might not even rate as bad considering (especially the Purrity fight) Wlad dominated the contests until punching himself out.
    Vitali has Sanders that is an excellent win. Adamek Hide Kirk Johnson are good wins. Arreola was solid. But fell apart after. Solis never did anything. Peter was already defeated by Wlad.
    Wlad has a top 10 resume
    Vitali has a top 20 resume
     
    The Long Count, Aug 18, 2016
    The Long Count, Aug 18, 2016
    #136
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Lewis's retirement matters, too. Vitali might have got beat but I think a rematch is a 50-50 proposition, or something like it.
     
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2016
    McGrain, Aug 18, 2016
    #137
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Possibly. And possibly not.
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 19, 2016
    Unforgiven, Aug 19, 2016
    #138
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    True. It's my belief that no one would have beaten Vitali in the 4 years of his absence.

    The biggest threat, due to styles, is Hayes if he catches him at the right time.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 19, 2016
    lufcrazy, Aug 19, 2016
    #139
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Vitali was a better fighter imo, but injuries meant Wlad was able to achieve more.

    Vitali actually makes my top 100 p4p.

    But I do think Holmes would beat him.

    I still say it's

    Holmes (depending on how you view Ali's retirement post Spinks)
    Vitali
    Norton
    Witherspoon
    Ibeabuchi

    That's my top 5 none lineal champions
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2016
    lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2016
    #140
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't understand the high rating of Vitali Klitschko.
    His comeback after 4 years out was impressive but I don't see much on his record to write home about. The defences he made after the Arreola win were mostly terrible, some of the worst. In a way he was doing to the WBC title what Wilder's done since.
    Solis and Adamek were somewhat worthy, but the likes of Sosnowski, Briggs, Kevin Johnson, Manuel Charr were bad.

    Wladmir's faced his share of those types too. But he also fought Chagaev, Haye, Povetkin, Thompson, Pulev, who were better contenders.
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 23, 2016
    Unforgiven, Aug 23, 2016
    #141
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I rank entirely on h2h
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2016
    lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2016
    #142
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    If Holmes is non-linear, what is the next fight for linear champion ?
    Tyson-Smith ? Tyson-Tucker ? Tyson-Spinks ?
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 23, 2016
    Unforgiven, Aug 23, 2016
    #143
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I looked at the rankings of every fight from Ali retiring and Holmes never faced higher than number 3.

    Assuming he wasn't linear, when he lost to Spinks that wouldn't count because Spinks was unranked.

    Then in the rematch Spinks was 1 and Holmes was 3.

    It wasn't until Tyson v Spinks we saw a 1v2 match up occur. I think it was the first 1v2 since Foreman vs Ali.

    Although that's part of the problem with linearity because I think it's quite obvious that Norton v Holmes was the 2 best HW fighters in the world when they fought, it was just politics that prevented it being the actual case.

    The other question is the validity of Ali retiring after Spinks, it would be an unfair precedent saying Ali keeps his title in retirement. And even though DC made some excellent points, Ali still did officially retire, just as Pacquiao did despite coming back so soon.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2016
    lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2016
    #144
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