The best Hw's ever.

Small bit of background to the ratings, Sullivan didn't achieve much with the gloves as he had the potential to do, I think he could make top 5 here if he had had the fights but he didn't. Corbett went 5 years of his peak without a fight and then lost to Fitz, Bob himself went almost ten years without been bested at Heavy. Maher I probably overate but he beat Choynsky, Slavin, Goddard, Ruhlin, at least matched Sharkey and beat a slew of contender types including blacks from 1891-1900. McVea over Wills is probably controversial but he was able to beat a near peak Harry, a peak Langford, edged Jeannette IMO and lost less often than most in his peak years. Goddard I like with the Jackson, Choynsky and Maher performances and I also think Burns underrated, IMO he is very close to McVea and Jeannette. Willard I don't see that much in his resume, his standout win in a fight that all the conditions suited him, wins over an erratic Smith and Moran and a green McCarthy plus a few embarrassing performances. I have no problem in leaving Miske out, several could take his place.

 

I know what you mean and it's a very valid view. I just don't think Jess was ever really the best in the world.
Over 20 rounds I couldn't see him beat old Johnson, Wills, McVey, Langford...hell I'm not even sure he beats Fulton.

 

Most people would agree with you.
However McVea has pretty well the same wins(swap Martin and Barry for Firpo and Fulton) but with the big difference that he beat these fighters when they were nearer their prime. Not Harry's fault, but not Sam's either. From 1904-1912 Sam only lost to Joe Jeanette whom he also beat numerous times.

 

Suzie do you agree to take out the guys in red as we look for 30?

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Paolino Uzcuden
Johnny Risko

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John Henry Lewis
Ernie Schaff
Young Stribling

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Melio Bettina
Joey Maxim

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Lou Nova
Arturo Godoy
Nathan Mann
Al Ettore
Gus Dorazio

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Abe Simon
Roscoe Toles

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Tami Mauriello
Joe Baski

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Lee Oma

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Don't think it's misleading at all- he shut out a 26 year old Wills who had already beaten Meehan in a 4 rounder(no mean feat) and drawn with Jeannette and Langford. Rodel, Jim Johnson, Stewart were all good wins.
As for Denver Martin, he ko'd him three times and dropped a points decision-hardly breaking even?
He beat Langford 4 years before Harry did it and he dominated Jeannette in their famous Paris fight before losing on stamina issues(the 49th round!) after Joe had survived using illegal smelling salts. Not dissing Harry, a great fighter but being shamefully avoided by Dempsey has added to his legend in a strange way.

 

Matt,

I definitely like Steve Hamas on the list, and I definitely like Roland Lastarza on either the 22-52 list or the 52-71 list. let's agree to put him on the 1922-1951 list. So both Hamas and Lastarza are in.

I disagree on taking Lem Franklin out. Frank went an incredible 19-0 with 17 knockouts run from 1939-1941. Some of the men he beat during this run included Eddie Blunt, Jimmy Bivins, Willie Reddish, Tony Musto, Hatchetman Sheppard, Abe Simon. He beat all of these men by knockout. Franklin was the # 2 Ring Magazine contender and many accused Joe Louis' camp of ducking Franklin.

Some of the other men..Eddie Blunt. "The dark spoiler", another underrated black fighter of the late 1930s-early 1940s. We talk about the two best big men of the era as Buddy Baer and Abe Simon(both men you chose to keep on the list). Well, Eddie Blunt beat both of them. Blunt was a big man 6'1 220lb, perhaps he was one of the better big men of the era. Perhaps he doesn't make the list, but better take a 2nd look at him.


Lee Savold, I'm willing to leave him off, but look at his resume. He beat Lou Nova, Joe Baksi, Gus Dorazio, Eddie Blunt, Lem Franklin, Bruce Woodcock, Johnny Whiters. Not bad.


Harry Bobo was a 6'4 210lb slugger who won a portion of the duration heavyweight title during world war II. Another dangerous black fighter whose Louis camp was accused of ducking.[/QUOTE]

Abe Simon was due to go soon and I think Blunt just lost too often to make it. Savold too lost a lot despite his many fine wins but I'm off to study Franklin and Bobo a bit more.

 

Jack dominated both of them too and Burns wins over O'Brien, Hart and Flynn were impressive. I mean Burns beat Hart easy and he at the minimum gave Johnson a tough argument.

 

Ha ha, a qualified agreement!
PS Sam was consistent......

Anyway as I said most would agree with you.