The best I`ve faced: Hagler (the ring magazine)

How can I be wrong on what Hagler picks?

Did I know Minter was stopped on cuts 5+ times? Not really, I thought it was less than that. So there you have it. An admission. Just because Minter's a UK middle weight version bleeder on the level of Henry Cooper dosn't mean he had the best chin Hagler ever faced...for 2 1/2 rounds at that.

 

Leonard still won, any way you slice it. The official judges, the punch stats, and the media cards. They all say Leonard won it. That is three separate sources Berlenbach.

I'm not sure if the surgeries in the 1980s for detached eye retina's were as good as they are today. I tend to doubt they were. I am sure Leonard was out of the ring for there years, a point which should not be discounted. I asked before can you show me an example of a guy moving up in class, out of the ring for three years that beat another all time great in his prime or near prime?

''Leonard`s tactics were very smart,'' said Futch. ''He confused and frustrated Hagler, but he fought in flurries, two or three times a round, usually at the beginning and end to impress the judges.

''But I thought Hagler had a slight edge, probably by a few points. He was the champion.'' - Futch


^^^ I'd like to see Futch's card, " probably by a few points " he says? That's just wrong. In general I do not value what a trainer says after a fight. They have business reasons and are biased to people they worked with in the ring and in the corners.

Where did I say I valued Howard Cosell's opinion? Now, you're making this up. Please don't do that. I value Cosell as a blow by blow guy, not a boxing expert.

I've already made points, and you can't refute one of them.

1 ) The judges said Leonard won
2 ) The Media, in general, said Leonard won
3 ) Punch stats say Leonard won.
4 ) 3 years out of the Ring for Leonard. Ring rust is never easy.

On Hagler vs Hearns, it was a quick battle, not a long war, and mostly Hagler landing. I'd have to re-watch Hagler vs Mugabi, I recall Hagler boxing and playing it safe early. Mugabi proved to have a glass jaw after this fight

On closed door fights, they mean little without the film and I suspect most were just a good sparring session

 

I always thought Hearns punches had a big effect on Hagler. This is not a fan trying to make it so. but Ray Leonard said at the end of round 2 Hagler is arm weary.. And at the beginning of round 3 he was not throwing well. His arms did look tired, and he put a lot out there. Hearns jab was swelling up Marvin's face and he was landing it clean in round 3. I always thought had Hearns had the stamina to go 2 more rounds and land his jab. That would be very very interesting.

 

You saw tkos and assumed he was stopped because he was on the verge of a ko and you were WRONG!
Everyone knows that ,even you, though of course you haven't the nuts to admit it!

It's enough you have been corrected!

 

Your list of scorecards that you keep referring to includes Howard Cosell's scorecard...

1) Two judges said Leonard won, including one with a ridiculous scorecard that no one, not even any of your media scorecards, agrees with.
2) Some in the media thought Leonard won. Plenty of others thought not.
3) Fights aren't decided on punch stats.
4) 14 years of ringwear for Hagler, including recent brutal wars with two hard-hitters, and over a year of inactivity himself.

According to Four Kings Leonard had several simulated 12 round bouts in preparation for Hagler.

 

I will say this. Hagler fighting Hearns,Duran and Leonard at their original weights? I think all 3 of those guys beat him. I love Marvin, but I think all in all his quality of opposition was below them.

 

All valid points!

 

not likely. you arent familiar with his opposition

 

I know more than anyone like you would ever know. Hagler would lose to all three at their starting weights. He already lost to Ray. Which says enough about that.

 

Despite the bad blood between Hagler and Minter before the fight and the ugly aftermath the Marvellous one had the upmost respect for English fighters.
Hagler as mentioned in Ring Minter best chin and strongest Tony Sibson.
And in other articles Tony Sibson punched as hard as anyone he faced.
And Kevin Finnegan as the toughest he ever fought.

 

Of course he'd lose at 135 or 147 or bantamweight for that matter
He'd be badly drained.

 

I meant pound for pound. Hagler benefitted from having guys move up to him. Yet when someone mentioned fighting Spinks he said, he would not go up 15 pounds to fight him. Spinks would have to go down and fight him at 160. Yet he wanted all those guys to come up and fight him. He was mad Hearns did not fight him in 1982 right after Hearns was at welterweight.

 

Hagler didn't force them to come up and fight him.
They wanted his title.

 

like what? if you know so much then let the rest of us know about it. its a forum remember?

BTW, Duran's starting weight was 135

so I might agree with you on Duran but Tommy was actually superior at 154 than at 147 - faster, much stronger, and much improved so I dont see how an extra couple pounds would make any difference, not to mention Hagler was already past his peak yet snuffed hitman in 3

and IF Tommy out boxed Sugar, then that means Sugar also would have been snuffed by Hagler

remember, it was Leonard who failed to answer the call during Hagler's peak. He had his chance, but he wouldnt take it

and forget all this "1980s eye surgeries were not as good as today's" copout which translated is just an excuse for the embarassment for deliberately missing the prime of the world's best fighter.

Just admit, Ray didnt want to get his ass kicked by Hagler and stop making excuses!

Ray had been a great fighter and didnt want to get knocked out

 

Leonard did not actually sweep the first four rounds as his fans claim

rounds 1, and 3 were no better than even as was rd 7

more over the ref refused to take points off for flagrant groin shot in the 4th or the obvious hitting after the bell on more than one occasion

yet this was the same referee who was consistent in warning Hagler in the Hearns fight and breaking him earlier, tried to do it again early in the first and almost got caught himself

the way I scored it? Hagler by 1 point. Leonard looked better than a badly faded Hagler and made him look bad but didnt do enough to actually win it