The Best Iterations Of George Foreman Versus James Toney (With A Poll)

Yow, someone's offended. I literally did an entire breakdown of Roberto Duran's 135 resume being overrated relative to the ones of other great Lightweights. I'm the guy that said Harry Wills should rank over Sonny Liston.

This forum being in its mini dark age is certainly not because I don't like seeing hot takes

 

Why would I be offended? - I enjoy both those takes, I was just hoping you’d want to debate because you do good breakdowns.

 

Well you're the guy with the unconventional takes, and it seemed pretty clear that you thought I was having a subtle dig at you.

I don't particularly care for this match up to do a layered breakdown, it's been done to death and I'm simply tired of Heavyweights. Just by memory of these guys and without going into detail( I'm in 70's LHW mood right now, so I'm really not keen on rewatching them for this), I think that while Toney is slicker and way more skilled, Foreman just nullifies that by taking away his balance through Physicality. Pushing and leverage guards at long and mid range, making him lean into shots up close or holding and hitting, stuff like that.

I don't think Toney was that good above 190 lbs after the Jirov fight, he was too fat for his own good when he was in the 210s or heavier. Yeah he beat Holyfield and arguably Peter, but Holyfield was both older than Toney and far more battle worn at that point, and Peter's just a fat crude puncher. Neither of them abused their physicality like Foreman did or used it as well as he did. I'm not seeing a 5'10 guy not getting pushed around by Foreman, no matter how heavy he is.

 

You right now:

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You sound like you’ve been losing arguments in the shower and now you want revenge.

 

You'd know a lot about that wouldn't you considering you've never won an argument in your life

 

This supposed clap back is the reason why the saying "at least he tried" was invented.

 

Yeah seemed like a dig, if it wasn’t it wasn’t but I’m not offended, I even like Wills > Liston and see what you’re talking about with Duran.
I don’t think it’s been done to death, I basically don’t think anyone made a good case for Foreman besides “he’s a middleweight GF overpowers him” using any version of Toney you want at 190lbs-210lbs he could still move move fine. watch Frazier vs Foreman 2, he was at the end of his stamina against an out of character Frazier moving… can you see Toney being KO’d by Foreman? Rahman and Peter when JT basically lost the ability to move had him nowhere near in danger not did they overpower him despite being bigger, stronger and more enduring then a 220lbs GF… Jirov didn’t hit as hard as those guys but it’s obvious you can’t kill the guy with volume, muscle or “moar powa” he’s there to stay, Rahman was about 50 punches off Ibeabuchi’s punch stat was about 20lbs heavier then prime Foreman and could punch just as hard as anybody but for 12 rounds… in the Peters fight, the first one, Peters basically just landed rabbit punches on a shot obese Toney every time he bowed over his right. George Foreman turns into a pumpkin very quickly, he couldn’t fight inside but would wind up there because like in the case of Ali he thinks he want to be there, Rahman and Peter’s had there success trying to peck him to death and staying away, they begged them not to go to the ropes with Big “Ice Tea” Toney for a reason, GF would go there square hipped wide open and uppercutted to death while Toney has his shoulder in his chest. How does GF take away his balance? When did James ever lean into any punch? It isn’t Frazier hanging over his front foot assisting with both? That’s a vague statement and it wouldn’t work in any capacity we’ve seen demonstrated.

 

Gentleman Toney vs Foreman 2 is hallowed ground please control yourselves for the sake of arch bishop @Melankomas at least.

 

Wow, an insult and a cliché. You're much better at those than you are at analyzing fights. It explains why you always run from a real debate. Seems you're past your best.

 

I'll try but sadly can't help it when someone would rather engage in flame wars then actual productive debate but we shall see maybe he'll prove me wrong for once

 

Preem be with you brother he’s a child of the “Big” Toney in the sky, non believer or not we must honour the Preem, the big and the Holyfield.

 

Nah, I don't think that's gonna happen. Infighting can be really good when fighting a bigger opponent, but at one point it's just too much. Duran was much better than Hagler on the inside, not that Hagler lack an inside game, but the difference was substantial, yet the natural strength difference due to size made it enough for Hagler to mostly get the better of Duran there (from memory at least).

Toney really isn't the same size as Foreman, the closest thing to an in shape Heavyweight Toney is the one from the Jirov fight, and even then he's got a 30 lb handicap, and considering some amount of that weight was excess and not lean muscle, the strength difference is probably even bigger than those 30 lbs.

Besides, infighting requires activity to work, which a post Jirov fight Toney didn't really have iirc. The biggest factor at close range is clinch work, which is what Ali utilised to beat Foreman, and while Ali wasn't as good as "fighting" on the inside as Toney, he was a much, much better and stronger user of the clinch. Foreman wasn't some stamina monster, but he's not exactly facing a guy with Ali's size, strength, power, ability on the clinch, and stamina here, or even hand speed really. Toney's tough and really durable despite being a former Middleweight, but I suspect at one point Foreman starts landing some powerful blows that the ref thinks are too much for Toney to handle, and stops it. Foreman while no tactical wizard, was pretty good at throwing certain shots to delibarately move his opponent into upcoming ones.

You're not immune to losing your balance by having a bladed stance with your weight on your back foot either, I box like that and I know from experience, especially when someone who's half a head taller than you and naturally much bigger shoves and pushes you around, which unlike with Peter, Foreman is gonna do frequently. Frazier's bigger and taller than Toney and he couldn't do a thing about it.

 

Repetitive dip**** threads seem to be the new trend here.

The best version of Toney doesn't beat the Briggs version of Foreman.

 

Let’s keep it to film / fights we can see not personal anecdotes otherwise it just turns into a big nothing burger, I’ve sparred around in the ring with heavier then Foreman and I’m 150-168lbs depending on how much I’ve been drinking, I’ve been inside, it is still irrelevant to the thread. I’ll come back to this doe - good post L.

 

AGREED - Admit it doe, when I made Toney vs Foreman I at least made a good case and I’m sick of you not conceding at least that, why don’t you make a good thread? I’ll post there, keep it alive etc you know your S post something.