The Best of the Rest: 160lbs Tier II Tournie - Last 16 Fight 7: Joey Giardello vs James Toney

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Sep 1, 2021.


Who will win?

Poll closed Sep 4, 2021.
  1. Giardello Points

    69.2%
  2. Giardello T/KO

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. James Toney T/KO

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. James Toney Points

    30.8%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What i've done is i've lifted top tiers out of my top fifty at the poundage and organised them into a seeded tournament to uncover "the best of the rest" at the poundage, with you, the denizens of the world's greatest boxing history forum, casting the deciding vote. The difference between this middleweight tournament and the equivalent at 175lbs is that I've left ALL the guys with no footage in this time. I understand that makes things difficult and for some, frustrating but there are just far too many excellent and intriguing fighters from middleweight history. I understand this makes making a pick very hard, but i hope you'll still place a vote and make a post because obviously without your input the whole thing becomes meaningless.

    Pick your man! Write however many details you like or don't in a post below. But maybe try to post, to keep things moving a little bit. You have three days.

    And let's be nice. No reason for disagreeing over total fantasies after all!

    15 Rounds, 1950s rules and ref. 10 points must. I'll only vote where there's a tie.


    LAST SIXTEEN FIGHT 7: Joey Giardello vs James Toney

    JOEY GIARDELLO (99-27-8)
    Joey Giardello was one of the middleweight division’s greatest survivors. After turning professional in the late forties, Giardello spent years slogging his way through a hellish apprenticeship that saw him turn out sixteen times in 1950 alone. Naturally there were losses; naturally, for a fighter of his quality he broke into the Ring rankings in 1952. He would remain there for most of the fifties and for much of the 1960s, including a spell as champion despite his sharing an era with the terrifying **** Tiger, a fighter he had to face on no fewer than four occasions. Like Tiger, his long wrestle with contendership makes his eventual rise to the summit more and not less impressive.

    Giardello’s arrival looked to be anointed by his superb 1954 stoppage of the ranked puncher and favourite Willie Troy in a fight in which Giardello found the point of Troy’s chin from the first, all the while taking the best the Virginian could dish out. Troy was saved by the bell in both the first and the second but Giardello slowly bricked him up with a scything, brutal right-hand and a cuffing, debilitating left all while giving ground. Troy was all in after seven and rightly plucked from danger by referee Al Berl.

    Giardello came undone in his next fight with the fearless and often brilliant Frenchman Pierre Langlois but bounced back with a minor controversy in his win over Bobby Jones, also ranked, but tumbled down the rabbit hole of contendership once more after losing out to Charley Cotton; and so it went for a fighter who seemed perennially one fight away from a title shot.

    In many ways, Giardello is the anti-Cerdan. He did not, like the Frenchman, go unbeaten, but nor was his middleweight journey tragically cut short. He fought there for years, meeting more ranked men and accruing losses. Where Giardello edges ahead for me is in the twilight of his career when, upon defeating an aged Sugar Ray Robinson, he found himself in the ring for a third time with **** Tiger with whom he had previously gone 1-1; now the title was at stake.

    Aged 33, a veritable pensioner for the era given his sixteen years as a professional behind him, he did not fail in his last best chance at a title; he boxed his way to a decision over Tiger and then cemented his reputation as fearless in matching the destructive Rubin Carter in his first defence. He could not manage another, losing out to a brilliant Tiger in a fourth and final contest in 1965, an astonishing ten years after his defeat of Willie Troy.

    Giardello’s career is simply too storied to recount here entirely but he can be surmised as being perhaps not among the greatest champions in middleweight history, but very much among the greatest contenders.

    JAMES TONEY (76-9-3)
    “I fight with anger,” James Toney once told a reporter. “I look at my opponent, I see my dad, so I have to take him out of there. I have to kill him.”

    Toney badmouthed Michael Nunn all the way through the build up to their 1991 title fight, putting his hands on Nunn at the weigh in and threatening to “kill his bones”. Nunn, for his part, vowed to “punish” Toney in the ring for his many transgressions. Toney scowled his way to the ring and Nunn did indeed set out to punish him, but here my version of events and those of the judges part slightly. For the judges, Nunn dominated the next ten rounds of action whereas the way I see it, Nunn dominated early and Toney closed the gap late. None of this matters though, because after assuring his corner after the tenth that “I got him”, Toney dropped Nunn with a savage, winging hook and followed up with a hoodlum barrage of punches that left Nunn stricken. The lineal reign of Michael Nunn was over and the lineal reign of James Toney had begun.

    He managed six successful defences which is deeply impressive…but – Toney was lucky.

    He twice met with the wonderful Mike McCallum in protection of his title and each time the fights, the first ruled a draw, the second a majority decision for Toney, were so desperately close that any one of three decisions could reasonably have been rendered. Against top contender Reggie Johnson, his first defence, Toney ran out a legitimate winner but he needed to win the twelfth to take the decision. He was an uninspiring champion.

    An uninspiring champion who was lucky against David Tiberi, Toney could have relinquished his title on any one of four occasions but should have done so against Tiberi, who was such a huge outsider going in that it was impossible to get odds on their fight.

    Slick, fearless, interesting in his style and consistently in extremely close rounds with good fighters, Toney’s career is a contradiction; he is a fighter who both under-achieved and over-achieved and a champion who both proved his greatness and underwhelmed.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This content is protected

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  3. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Giardello would run. Toney on points
     
  4. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I have a feeling a lot of folks will pick Toney but a guy like Joey G who wouldn't just stand in front of Toney and movement is JT's Achilles heel. I see this more of a fight that could go either way but I am going to pick the very best version of Giardello here to win on points in an extremely close fight. Both guys have very impressive resumes and were very versatile but I like the activity and movement of Joey a little more than the counter punching Toney.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  5. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Giardello had the style to bring out the very worst in Toney, and the absurd toughness to withstand anything Toney had for him offensively. James at 160 was uneven at best, to boot.

    Joey by decision.
     
  6. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Joey Giardello - he was a better middleweight and I agree with @AwardedSteak863 and @salsanchezfan that his movement would cause the inconsistently conditioned Toney problems. Obviously it would go the distance.
     
    AwardedSteak863 likes this.
  7. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Your premise is wrong. Match up is against a conditioned Toney. Best version at middleweight
     
  8. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Toney but it's near.
     
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Great stylistic matchup for Giardello as he boxes his way to a competitive but never in doubt decision. Joey's too tough to be taken out late.
     
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  10. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    No, it's not wrong. The best version of Toney still had conditioning issues at middleweight - he took breaks against McCallum. He was never a "fighting three minutes of every round" kind of fighter. Plus, he'd have to chase Giardello. He managed to fight his way back into his fights with Nunn and Reggie Johnson but Giardello wouldn't have been afraid to trade with Toney when necessary. I stand by my prediction.
     
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  11. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Absolutely wrong. Check the punch stats of Mc Callum I. And Toney finished strong and won the last 3 rounds onm the judges scorecards. You may stand by your prediction but your premise is wrong. Actually displayed great conditioning in the Reggie and Nunn fights too where he was able to come from behind and win those fights.
     
  12. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Then when he's done watching that, he should watch the Tiberi or lethargic Glenn Wolfe fights.

    His prediction and rationale are perfectly sound.
     
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  13. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Toney is more skilled and I like watching him more but at MW Joey G is obviously more proven. I rate both men highly. Gotta take G by close decision
     
  14. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joey Giardello beats Toney by close decision in a classic chess match.

    Interesting to note that Giardello did fight George Benton, who had a pretty similar style to Toney, and lost to him by decision.
     
    Saintpat, KeedCubano and Jel like this.
  15. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you match Joey vs Toney (Tiberi version), Joey wins. If you match Joey vs Toney (Mc Callum I), Toney wins. I suppose this thread is about the best version of Toney othwerwise it makes no sense. I guess my point is not so hard to understand.