The Best of the Rest: 160lbs Tier II Tournie - Round 1 - Fight 15: James Toney WDQ12 Tony Zale

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Aug 25, 2021.


Who will win?

Poll closed Aug 28, 2021.
  1. Zale Points

    14.3%
  2. Zale T/KO

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Toney T/KO

    42.9%
  4. Toney Points

    42.9%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What i've done is i've lifted top tiers out of my top fifty at the poundage and organised them into a seeded tournament to uncover "the best of the rest" at the poundage, with you, the denizens of the world's greatest boxing history forum, casting the deciding vote. The difference between this middleweight tournament and the equivalent at 175lbs is that I've left ALL the guys with no footage in this time. I understand that makes things difficult and for some, frustrating but there are just far too many excellent and intriguing fighters from middleweight history. I understand this makes making a pick very hard, but i hope you'll still place a vote and make a post because obviously without your input the whole thing becomes meaningless.

    Pick your man! Write however many details you like or don't in a post below. But maybe try to post, to keep things moving a little bit. You have three days.

    And let's be nice. No reason for disagreeing over total fantasies after all!

    15 rounds, 1950s rules and ref. Ten points must. Weigh in is 18 hours before the fight.

    I'll only vote if it's tied, then I'll decide the result.

    Round of Thirty-Two Fight 15: Tony Zale vs James Toney

    TONY ZALE (67-18-2)

    Tony Zale was the man who wound the rope that unravelled when the great Micky Walker vacated the middleweight title. He held the lineal championship in an astounding seven calendar years, a feat worthy of inclusion inside the top ten at the weight, were it not for the fact that the war interrupted Zale’s prime. He did not defend his title in 1942, 1943, 1944 or 1945, preferring to take a crack at the wonderful Billy Conn up at light-heavyweight before turning his attention to the Japanese in the wake of Pearl Harbour. He served in the navy.

    Before the war, Zale was a force to be reckoned with, losing just one fight at middleweight between May of 1939 and enlisting, against an inspired Billy Soose. Among his victims was strap holder Al Hostak, who dropped Zale in the first round but also went to drop all five of the closing rounds in a non-title fight. This made a title-fight inevitable, and when it came, Zale didn’t miss his chance, breaking a supposedly below-par Hostak down gradually, forcing the referee’s intervention in the thirteenth.

    With typical dramatic flair Zale, a private and by all accounts understated man outside of the ring, may have rescued himself from a draw in the tenth and final round by dropping the superb Fred Apostoli to win their non-title meeting, his finest win. After quickly dispatching a now broken Hostak in another fight and meeting some unranked competition, Zale legitimised his reign and unified a middleweight title that had been fractured since the retirement of Micky Walker, against Georgie Abrams. Abrams dropped Zale early but was a decisive loser as Zale met him with a savage body-attack for which he remains famous; this may have been his single best performance.

    It was post-war that he achieved immortality, boxing in a famous trilogy with Rocky Graziano. I suspect that if Zale were in his pre-war prime there would have been no trilogy and that perhaps even one fight would have been enough; that aside, he lost the middle of three, reclaiming his middleweight championship before having his title blasted from him by Marcel Cerdan.


    JAMES TONEY (76-9-3)

    “I fight with anger,” James Toney once told a reporter. “I look at my opponent, I see my dad, so I have to take him out of there. I have to kill him.”

    Toney badmouthed Michael Nunn all the way through the build up to their 1991 title fight, putting his hands on Nunn at the weigh in and threatening to “kill his bones”. Nunn, for his part, vowed to “punish” Toney in the ring for his many transgressions. Toney scowled his way to the ring and Nunn did indeed set out to punish him, but here my version of events and those of the judges part slightly. For the judges, Nunn dominated the next ten rounds of action whereas the way I see it, Nunn dominated early and Toney closed the gap late. None of this matters though, because after assuring his corner after the tenth that “I got him”, Toney dropped Nunn with a savage, winging hook and followed up with a hoodlum barrage of punches that left Nunn stricken. The lineal reign of Michael Nunn was over and the lineal reign of James Toney had begun.

    He managed six successful defences which is deeply impressive…but – Toney was lucky.

    He twice met with the wonderful Mike McCallum in protection of his title and each time the fights, the first ruled a draw, the second a majority decision for Toney, were so desperately close that any one of three decisions could reasonably have been rendered. Against top contender Reggie Johnson, his first defence, Toney ran out a legitimate winner but he needed to win the twelfth to take the decision. He was an uninspiring champion.

    An uninspiring champion who was lucky against David Tiberi, Toney could have relinquished his title on any one of four occasions but should have done so against Tiberi, who was such a huge outsider going in that it was impossible to get odds on their fight.

    Slick, fearless, interesting in his style and consistently in extremely close rounds with good fighters, Toney’s career is a contradiction; he is a fighter who both under-achieved and over-achieved and a champion who both proved his greatness and underwhelmed.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  3. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm sure Zale will be a popular choice on this forum but I just don't see it. He will swarm and try to pressure Toney but will be unable to hurt him. Toney on the other hand will likely catch him with a murderous counter right hand and end the matter.

    I'm sure some will point to Toney's weight struggles but if we are talking about the best of both fighters at this weight I just don't see it for Zale. Zale is no doubt a fighter worthy of respect but no one ever stopped Toney during his 30 year career which included dozens upon dozens of fight well north of 160.
     
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  4. FartWristedBum

    FartWristedBum I walk this Earth like a bum Full Member

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    I really like Zale, one of my faves. Toney just too skilled imo. Styles make fights etc and Toney probably wins but not 10/10 at all.
     
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  5. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jul 14, 2009
    Another vote for Toney
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Tony Zale was thoroughly outboxed through twelve rounds before throwing not one, but two late punches after the bell for the eleventh. Toney, who took exception and lifted Zale underarm before throwing him to the canvas was deducted a single point while Zale was deducted two. The twelfth round, the final of the contest, was filthy, and marred by fouls from both men including a violent headlock from James Toney and an apparent knee from Zale. But it was repeated blows thrown by Zale after the bell for the twelfth that saw Toney advance as Zale was disqualified by irate referee توني فرانك on his stool. The referees scorecards revealed later that Zale was already in need of a knockout, Toney have clearly dominated him with a jab/right-hand combo that left Zale confounded.
     
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