The Best of the Rest: 160lbs Tier II Tournie - THE FINAL:Lloyd Marshall SD15 Mike McCallum

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Sep 14, 2021.

Who will win?

Poll closed Sep 17, 2021.
  1. Lloyd T/KO

    6.3%
  2. Lloyd Points

    50.0%
  3. McCallum Points

    31.3%
  4. McCallum T/KO

    12.5%
  1. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Let's not have this end in a controversial decision again. Any more takers?

    EDIT: Damn - poll has closed.
     
  2. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    Of those 11 stoppages pal, seven of them were to Charles, Moore, Bivins, Oakland Billy Smith and Ceferino Garcia on cuts. Most of those lads were bigger, stronger and harder hitting than Mike at 160. A few of the other stoppage losses came at the end for him too. So there's context there to a considerable point. Dropping decisions to the other row fighters while beating them as well is expected unless you're a freak like Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, Duran etc, and some of those defeats were competitive and close. McCallum was a bit avoided and lacking support and backing on his own time, he'd be an outright pariah in the 40s and probably only known to hardcore enthusiasts like us and well-versed historians. It's not like he was better than the most of the row, he'd probably be incurring his share of wins and defeats and isn't going to knock out the likes of Charles imo. Imagine if he hadn't gotten the decisions in the Graham fight, Kalambay I or a draw with Toney etc? All of which are perfectly arguable. He could have come out worse than he did in a weaker era than Marshall fought in, albeit still a strong one, and he did have a steadiness and immovability to him that Marshall lacked I suppose, though Marshall was bigger and more powerful. It's easy to see McCallum taking one in a real time series scenario taking into account peaks and dips etc. But not hard to see why Marshall could be favoured h2h.
     
    George Crowcroft, JohnThomas1 and Jel like this.
  3. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Please understand that I am not knocking Marshall for being KO 11 times. I also understand that some of those were late in his career or in situations were he probably took fights on short notice, etc. McCallum could only fight the best available to him which in most cases he beat clearly. Only later in his career at light heavy did he get beaten decisively by Roy Jones and Tiozzo. I firmly believe that he would have performed well in the same era as Marshal against the likes of Charles, Lamotta etc. He was just simply that good.

    I have no problem with someone picking Marshall. I know those names on his resume carry a lot of weight as they should. It was a golden era of the sport but I will go to my grave thinking McCallum could compete with anyone at MW.
     
  4. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    I didn't think you were knocking Marshall tbh, I could tell that you were trying to put forth a balanced argument. Fair enough about McCallum, he was a brilliant fighter and indeed very durable and consistent. I was just trying to put some of Marshall 's losses in context, the same with McCallums consistency.
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    McCallum's power gets well overrated for me. A lot seem to think him a bit of a banger (particularly at 154) but he just wasn't. You never see any opponents lauding his power and some even mention his lack thereof. He mostly ground 'em down. They all do however mention his excellent skills.

    His durability is excellent but we've seen him in decent trouble. I think if he rolled the dice across Marshall's era i would not be surprised if he lost by stoppage a couple of times. Brutal conditions and brutal opponents of which there was any amount of depth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Lloyd Marshall the winner! I'm a little surprised, I must admit, he turned in some pretty special performances at MW, but I think most of his best was above 160lbs. People probably creditting him a little bit for his work at higher weights, which I don't find totally objectionable. I thought he was going to get put out in the semi- though, only time I was really surprised during the MW tournament I think!

    A worthy winner anyway - best of the rests fits him perfectly.
     
  7. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    Couldn't agree more John.
     
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  8. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks for doing these threads! They clearly take a lot of effort and time.