The Best S.Middleweight of all time is.....

I'll go with Roy Jones Jr. Not the best resume at 168 but he crushes all other super middleweights in a head to head sense

 

Jones was easily better than Calzaghe, while Calzaghe was more accomplished at the weight.

As for Jones's competition, will SlimDick please point out the 9 years of his career where he fought nothing but bums, please. Thanks.

 

please do me a favour, STFU.

you cannot say that the roy who beat toney would beat joe at any point - you don't know that.

I personally think some people really have too much arse kissing for Roy (who btw i love to watch and consider myself a fan of). They make him sound near unbeatable when I think there are several flaws in his game, but due to the lack of true challenges he's faced - its hard to really say if they are definitely flaws, or more due to laziness considering the level of opposition.

As i've said Toney has been elevated due to the perception of him by fans - they are big fans, his achievements do stand out, however he has been elevated in such a way it elevates RJJ to make him seem near unbeatable.

One good fight at 168, and 5 people who either belong 30 pounds south, or have no business being in the same ring as RJJ, doesn't trump the achievements of Joe Calzaghe.

 

If you can't see that Jones would've easily beaten Calzaghe at their respective bests it just means you don't have a clue how to analyze a matchup, given how easily this ones favors Jones in almost every aspect.

 

****ING HELL! THE THREAD IS NOT ****ING CALLED WHO HAD MORE DEFENCES AT SUPERMIDDLEWEIGHT, IT IS CALLED WHO WAS THE BEST.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT "BEST" MEANS?

 

Let's play devils advocate here.

Why is RJJ easily better than JC?

don't give me achievements as such - thats not really going to help - some fighters are built to move up in weight, and i dont think that multiple weight achievements (his only serious weight was 175 where he went on to build a legacy) necessarily trump a careers worth of achievements at one weight.

Lets please keep this constructive and civil - I don't want to start a real argument, or be called nuthugger/hater for possibly suggesting RJJ might lose/not better than JC in a SMW sense; but i would like to really discuss and try come to a proper conclusion.

 

Yes, and it is subjective. You could use the term for your own agenda (as you are), and dismiss the over meanings that it could portray.

What constitutes best for you, might not be the same for me. For me, I consider it as being the one who achieved the most, stood out above the rest.

in that sense - considering both careers at SMW, JC>RJJ - therefore in this case, in my opinion, Joe Calzaghe was the BEST super middleweight.

 

Let's discuss the matchup then. Calzaghe's strengths include his handspeed, footspeed, and workrate. Jones's strengths include his handspeed, footspeed, and counter-punching ability.

Jones has the clear edge in handspeed, and has the edge in footwork as he uses the ring better, though Joe closes the distance quite fast as well. Therefore, Joe's speed is no longer an advantage. So what it comes down to is his workrate, but against a fighter he can't overwhelm with any physical advantages he's in a pickle, especially given Joe's vulnerability when closing the distance, as he's very vulnerable to right hands and counters in general. Thing is, most others he'd be facing have neither the speed nor the power to take Joe off his game. Jones is one of the best counter-punchers of all time with great power on the other hand, and would find Joe with that straight right very often, stopping Joe in his tracks quite often, causing him to reset and give up his only advantage, workrate. Not to mention he'd more than likely get put on his ass once or twice. His style plays directly into Roy's hands.

 

One of those 5 was seen as a worthy opponent for Kessler just over two years ago, and just two fights before Kessler fought Joe. That's Mikkel Kessler, Joes greatest win. He was a rather older 35 at the time to, not the 25 when he faced Jones... make of that what you will...

 

OK, I'm up for keeping it constructive and civil.

I believe RJJ would dismantle Joe Calzaghe at super-middleweight because I have seen every one of RJJ's fights at the weight, and every one of Calzaghe's world title fights at the weight, and in my opinion RJJ was a far higher quality fighter. He beat undefeated #2 P4P at the time future HOFer James Toney in a dominant, career-high performance, and knocked out people for fun. Calzaghe was a great super-middleweight, I just don't think he was anywhere near as good. And he never fought anyone anywhere near as good as Toney.

 

A worthy opponent in the sense he was a newcomer on the world scene, who hadn't even established himself.

It's quite different if you are trying to make out someones resume deserves to be ranked GOAT at the weight because of a win over him and a few others.

 

I see, and agree from where you're coming from. Having said that it doesn't hide the fact that it was Kessler's 37th fight though. He is very much a part of Kessler's recent resume. The resume of a man who is seen as the top man in the division away from Joe. It's hard to ridicule Jones for fighting a 25 year old version of Lucas, but lord and praise a well established Kessler for fighting a 35 year old version (on what turned out to be his last ever fight). Yes I know it was Kessler's 2nd defence, but I feel the criticism here is a little inconsistent.

Anyway, I'm not one saying Jones resume is greater at 168. My only issue regarding resumes is that the Toney win tops any single win by Joe in 15+ years.

 

Maybe, quite probably infact. Who has the greatest single win wasn't the question though, was it?

On depth of resume, and h2h remaining strong its impossible not to pick Joe Calzaghe unless you are plainly ******ed. We have a few said ******s in this thread.