The Best S.Middleweight of all time is.....

I just value achievement in a weight class, as otherwise it gets a bit too grey for my liking and fighters throughout history blend in here there and everywhere and it gets difficult to pinpoint.

Each to their own.

 

I personally see no weaknesses in Jones's game(at his peak) that could be exploited by any but the best fighters of all time personally. I'd favor quite a few over him at LHW, perhaps a few at MW, but none at SMW.

 

I'm not sure myself what it is - but when i watch him, its like an instinct that just feels - thats not right, there is something wrong - I'll know tomorrow when i look for it - it might be something as small as what sues2nd saw with calzaghe - his dropping his hand habit etc. (he made an analysis prior to hopkins fight).

Let me study it when i get in from work tomorrow, I'll have it in 24 hours.

 

The only weakness Jones had was not infact a technical or physical one, but more his tendency to carry guys. He could have done more at times, and just did enough to coast through, he was that good.

If I'm being ultra picky.

 

H2H in their prime, I don't see Roy Jones Jr losing from 154 (amateur and original professional fights) through to 175. I also think he could have busted up some numbers at 190 too.

But you have to take longevity into account and remaining undefeated, Calzaghe is the #1 in terms of achievement.

Who is considered the better olympian? The guy that has all the talent but only achieves a couple medals over 8 years, or the guy that consistently gets medals for 12-16 years?

Ian Thorpe is considered a better swimmer than Spitz, Spitz claimed more medals in one outing than Thorpe, but Thorpe did it consistently.

 

well - it might turn out to be one of the most appropriate - where can i get a full copy of the toney fight?

and if possible the bhop fight - i'd like to watch both of them, as they're his best opponents - and i'd like to see how they fared over the course of the fight..

if someone could pm any links or sources for links - would be greatly appreciated.

 

James Toney is widely regarded as one of the smartest and toughest guys to fight at middle and super middle since the 1980s. He was #2 P4P in the world when he fought Jones Jr. He couldn't find any weaknesses.

If you want to see glimpses of weaknesses at supermiddle, watch Calzaghe v Robin Reid, Calzaghe v Byron Mitchell, and Calzaghe v Kabary Salem. Would RJJ honestly have had any trouble with these guys at 168? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

 

Calzaghe or any fighter of all time?

 

Absolutely anyone.

If by prime we're talking both fighters coming in 100% mentally, physically and both 100% fired up.

Jones Jr in his later years lost some of that killer instinct and didn't want to hurt fighters. I'm talking the RJJ that had the physical attributes and dominance of 1994-1998 with the mentality he took into the second Griffin fight.

 

I'm not sure. I wouldn't like to be conclusively picking him over Spinks and Foster like that, especially.

 

Both fights are on Youtube. The Toney fight was one of the most one-sided I've ever seen between two elite opponents. Toney was admittedly weight-drained in the fight and not at his best, but Jones gave him a thorough boxing lesson, shut him out on my cards. I honestly can't see how anyone not being generous could give Toney a single round.

The Hopkins fight was closer, but Jones showed his superiority throughout, so while plenty of the rounds were somewhat close, Jones took them. Hopkins won 4 rounds on the judges cards, though not even that on my card.

 

I think there are plenty of guys who'd have whupped his ass at 175.

 

Agreed.

 

Well you already know how I disagree with this, considering you don't take into consideration anyone from previous eras.

From 160-168 you could make a case for him over pretty much anyone. At 175 the doors open pretty wide IMO.

 

I think there are maybe some, maybe a few. But there is no doubt that nobody at 168 could touch the guy that beat Toney. And I think there are a few who would've beat him at middleweight.