The best super heavies. Can they be outboxed?

Lennox was getting ********* by Bruno, and the Mercer fight was incredibly close.

I disregard the Klitschko's because they should be dominating the joke of a Heavyweight division. Nothing special.

I think Bowe could be *********, and the decision loss to Holyfield was indicative of that. I also favor Ali to beat all of them on points, and he cannot really be considered a Super Heavy.

 

Well Wlad, Bowe, and Lennox sure. these 3 have some very good skills. but not vitali. I think he will be exposed soon enough once he faces a real boxer. vitalis skills arnt anywhere near the class of those 3. but I can see your point..lets see how it plays out.


- On a side note, 35 year old ray mercer very well may have outboxed lennox lewis, this doesnt look good for lennox. I think i scored it even. Also Frank Bruno was soundily outboxing lennox on my card before that left hook landed.

 

Only because Golota was an idiot.

 

Golota is a super heavyweight.

 

Prime Bowe was the best of the bunch IMO.

 

It's hard to tell whether it has to do with the Klitschko bros.'/Lewis's/Bowe's talent in relation to their peers or their size, but I think it's a fair conclusion to say that (under the modern rules) a tall skilled superheavyweight is all but impossible to outbox over 12 rounds except by another tall skilled superheavyweight. By "tall skilled superheavyweight", I'm referring to boxers between 6"3 and about 6"8. Vitali seems to be about as tall as a boxer can get before height starts to seriously damage mobility and Vitali is rather unusual in that he has short arms for his height which allow him to throw short punches well.

Now, I did add a qualifier in "under the modern rule-set". I'm a big believer in my "adaptation" approach to boxing history (first proposed during marathon debates with Revolver about his ridiculous 1960-paradigm theory) which applies the common-sense proposition that winners are those best suited to their sport to boxing history. As rules change, so the specifications of the best-suited boxers change.

Today, a successful heavyweight needs to be strong, have a good outside game and a long jab. On the other hand, attributes useful in the past (stamina over long fights, infighting ability, the ability to fight frequentely for years on end tc.) are no longer necessary to make it in the heavyweight division.

Lewis, Bowe and the Klitschkos all fit this model (though Bowe had a good inside game and about as good a level of stamina as a big man can have) making them the basic model for success today. Tyson and Holyfield are examples of other approaches that have had some success (Tyson: short boxers who can slip beneath taller boxers' punches; Holyfield: short boxers with mobility and skill who can out-hustle bigger me) but these kinds of boxers are no as suited to the modern game.

Could Lewis, Bowe or the Klitschkos be outboxed in the modern epoch? It's not inconceivable, but it would take a boxer better suited than Holyfield (who gave Lewis a very good fight in their second bout) which isn't on the horizon. Boxing is a brutal game and to succeed it in it one must be suited to it. As boxing is now, I think it's plain that Vitali and Wlad are the best suited to their time and place.

 

Interesting statistics. I think this also has to due with the fact that heavyweights have always lacked fast in and out fighters. This is the only other option to outbox one of these guys other than having the same reach advantages that they have. Evander Holyfield was one of the exceptions of being a quick in and out fighter who used his jab and footwork to win a decision. How many other heavyweights benefit from this kind of hand and foot speed? Not many.

 

The numbers do speak loud.

IMO Bowe was at least the equal of the Klitschkos.

I do think Ali would have found a way to beat all of them though.

 

Yes, but how many decisions did Tunney, Louis, and Marciano lose. Two in about 200 or so fights, and the Louis loss to Charles came when he was old.

You are talking about domination which has always been the norm in the heavyweight division, size aside.

And Bowe should have not been given the decision on Billy Zumbrum, who is 6' at most and would certainly not be a super-heavyweight without supplements.