The best technique between Louis, Lewis, Wlad and Vitaly?

Get out of jail power is a terrific equalizer.

 

There must be a lot of "alts" voting!lol

 

There must be a lot of "alts" voting!lol

No, he would have been an hermaphrodite.

 

The problem is I don't buy your misdirects and hold you to what you actually say. So let's get to it...

Actually you have not emphasized that several times. You've made several contradicting statements here, even the more positive ones being very backhanded.

"He was 3-2 against top 5 fighters in the 70's. (Foreman) was outboxed by the two most technical he fought. I don't find that very effective."-you

"3-2 against top 5 fighters where of one was life and death isn't really that effective."-you

"I'd agree that (Foreman) was effective relative to his technical skill, though."-you

"Compared to textbook breakers like Ali and RJJ, Foreman was only moderately effective, though. "-you

I disagree. His ability to neutralize his opponent's pressure separates him from the countless other big men that can punch.

No, once more that is you putting words into my mouth. My actual quote:

"I don't believe I would label Foreman as a technically skilled fighter in the sense of what is commonly associated with that label."

Nowhere does this state that I agree with your conflicting observations and nor did I say anything about technical skill in regards to "his level."

 

The poll is a selection bias. "Wlad, Lewis, and Vitali" are all three super heavyweights concentrated in the same era perhaps unfairly but none the less not renowned for overall technical ability.

 

Of course you wouldn't.

Who's arguing that?

Or you could have just agreed with my original statement that he was effective. Compared to Ali, every heavyweight with the exception of possibly Louis is going to come up very short in terms of resume.

Ali (L)
Young (L)
Frazier x2
Norton
Lyle
Kirkman
Chuvalo
Peralta
LeDoux
Roman
Dino Denis
Wepner


Is enough to judge him among his peers. Is enough to judge him and earn him a legacy. Among his early 70s peers, he easily has the best resume behind Ali himself.

 

no, i thought you said Primo had no defence with his hands down all the time.

I havent gone anywhere, someone else coined the name cowardzaghe and its stuck. there is nothing I have done.

 

Foreman will usually rate higher than Frazier but overall, arguable, most resumes are. Personally, I was thinking more of the specific time period when the two were active together as actual "peers". I can't agree with this statement:

"since we don't have that many fights against top opposition to judge him by."

We aren't talking about Ike Ibeabuchi here. We are talking a guy who did in fact mix up with the best regarded heavies of his era in Ali, Frazier, Lyle, Young, and Norton.

Quarry is the only missing piece in the puzzle, but I don't think you need him to properly evaluate Foreman. He beat three men that are combined 4-0 (4 KOs) against Quarry.

 

I luv'em both but, in a properly considered rating, I think Frazier is just above Foreman, despite Big George's 90s comeback. Frazier has a better resume, in my opinion - apart from Ali, his Ellis, Quarry, Machen, Bonavena and Chuvalo wins are solid.

I also think, in the spirit of this thread, that Frazier was more the exemplar of technique, within the style he practiced. Not perfect all-round but, in certain areas, perhaps better than anyone. Foreman was not utterly bereft of skills but he's a slugger and sluggers are about brute force and raw power; no display of finesse required.

 

I'd have to agree, regarding a lack of Frazier combos. But his left hook is the stuff of legend.

The right was, as you suggest, more of a set-up punch; almost a rhythm/tempo punch. Although, when he threw it to the body, it looked quite punishing.

I just loved the way he could come forward; pressure his opponents; make his opponents miss; create openings and punish them with essentially one hand. His upper-body movement was a nightmare; even for sharpshooters.

His style gave him a short shelf-life, in my opinion. By the time he faced Big George for the second time, he had no real offensive snap left in him. But, as you imply, even for a Heavy who was small in stature, he looked quite good in attempting to outbox Foreman - while it lasted.