So Hamed's wins were all against fighters on the slide? Barrera was due to box Hamed much earlier so Hamed was ringside when Junior Jones smashed Barrera. Hamed would have destroyed Barrera at that time. Barrera beat a poor version of Hamed.
I m not saying all his wins we,re against guys on the slide but what i am saying is looking at his record. From the start up to medina. He hadnt really fought anyone up till that point. Which is fair enough because barreras record will be the same. But the first time naz got put in with someone good albeit a guy who,d lost 7 times by that point. Unlike his easy opponents who couldnt hit him...he was hit all night. Medina could time him the same as barrera could. Again we had all the same excuses again after that fight. No excuses against the average 25 opponents beforehand tho. Its the same story with barrera as soon as he went up another level excuses come again. For years we,ve heard he never trained for barrera. Now we,re hearing he had to work too hard training because he was 2 and a half stone overweight. Which is it? I think the truth was he was starting to struggle a bit because the guys he was fighting we,re getting better and they could time him better. The stuff he was doing in his early days...domianting guys completely. Not getting hit. He couldnt get away with...not because he,d regressed or lost focus but the guys he was fighting got better. He was starting to get dirtier in his fights cause he couldnt take that they we,re hitting him. Was too used to destroying guys that werent at the top level. Even guys just below top level we,re timing him. Barrera was just another level up. Dont get me wrong it would be stupid to say naz wasnt good or even great. But this he,d have destroyed barrera in his prime is a bit silly for me. When exactly was that prime....against guys like steve robinson etc. The reason that was his prime was because they werent that good in terms of being top level. Naz showed signs of being the classic bully. When the tougher boys came along...he pretty much couldnt handle it. No shame in that because he had a good career...but just below the very top level. Admitedly the top level back then in that division eventually became very very good. People look at barrera/morales/marquez and pacman was coming through also...as pretty much legends of the game. He had the flashier style...he was just as entertaining if not more entertaining to watch than them...but they had more substance than him which i think they went on to prove in the end.
I don't disagree with you Mc2, but I think you're overlooking that Naz bought into his own hype - he started to spend his fights neglecting his boxing and just looking for power shots. I don't think we ever did see a prime Hamed at the peak of his powers and potential, and that is a big cause for sadness. We'll never know what that version of Hamed could have done. Having said that, I still watch his highlight reel from time to time. Whatever else he was / wasn't, nobody can deny what a fabulous entertainer he was.
Great post geoffers. Certainly a good argument could be put up either way. Completely agree with the bottom part naz was a special talent in terms of entertainment at the very least plus a very very good fighter. I was young at the time but remember believing no one could stop him barrera was about to go the same way as the rest of the guys. But in hindsight...i think the point you make about forgetting about his boxing and just looking for the power shots. You see it all the time with guys. They seem to change the way they fought all the way up to the top level. A good example being ricky hatton. He did become a hit and hugger later in his career under graham. But i say its down to the opponent more than naseem forgetting about his boxing. They can get away with their boxing against the lower level guys but the top guys or better guys time them better. They make them pay for the mistakes they could get away with. Thats why naz went to plan b. Go for the knockout. Knowing he had fight ending power. Its pretty subjective...no one can really say for certain either way tbf. Agree we probably didnt see the very best of him...but does losing the arrogance and dedicating himself more then take away from the fighter he was. Another difficult one. I m actually a believer that naseem was a hard worker in the gym. I know theres reports out there stating otherwise but it would have been hard for a slacker to get down to that weight everytime...and fight how he did. I think he maybe started cutting corners but essentially he was still a bit of a gym rat. I d be interested to hear other peoples accounts on it tbh. I dont think steward would have stood for it for one. Naz liked to play it up...and there was times when he played it up to make himself look even better than he was...but essentially he worked very hard in that gym. Wonder if there was a lot of accounts at the period when he left ingle after fighting was it paul ingle up till the fight before barerra under steward. The period when the fights started getting a bit more difficult for him. In full agreement that he was a great talent though. And boxing would have been worse off without him. Deserves the plaudits he gets because there was a good careeer in there...just as you say could have been better. I ll just stop short at destroying or probably even beating barrera/morales/marquez/pacman. Them level of guys. They really should have been made tho. We know that barrera respected him enough to change his game plan up a bit for that fight. And steward respected his ability also...but just think they would have been too much for him basing it off the medina fight and a few others outside the barerra one.
tbf i never liked hammo once. ridiculous ego problems and he got tapped as soon as he tried to step up to elite, then just gave up pretty much.
can we add a poll here just to see how many misguided fans Khan actually has around here?! (the rest obviously picks Nazeem)
Just watched the kelly v naz fight. Great fight. Think it did show though that naz,s style would get exposed at a higher level. After the first...kelley was timing him perfectly. If you look back over naz,s career. Medina timed him...hit him all night. Kelley timed him and then barrera done the same. A few others did as well...would need to look over his career again. The first two we,re under ingle...medina was really his first real test. Barrera was under steward. To me it puts to bed the naz wasnt naz for the barrera fight...because there was evidence there that did show naz could be timed and he,d lose his way/composure when he did. Tbf medina/kelley and barrera we,re all good fighters. But theres a link there...good fighters could time him. Guys that werent so good couldnt. I just think barrera made him fall apart. Kelley was on the verge of doing it...but he left himself too open whilst trying to do it.. Whereas barrera never...he tucked up well from what i can remember. Good finish from naz against kelley tbf. Pity he didnt come again after barrera because it might have been the wake up call he needed. But think he puts it down to hand trouble today...was pretty unconvincing in his comeback fight against calvo. But one thing running through naz,s career was there was always an excuse when things went bad or even looked bad. I think you d be better taking them with a pinch of salt...because there was definately evidence there pointing towards what happened against barrera. Still a great fighter tho.
The Medina fight stank to high hell he was up on the cards for the ring physician to call it off at the end of the eleventh that was naz,s first loss right there fwank card Then the fwank card Barrera v khan that stunk to ***** The the fwank card the other night smith Williams that stunk to ***** why was the khan Barrera method not adopted for that fight ummmm ***** f w a n k
I knew Naz from a young age and you're way out. Classic bully? He sparred much bigger pros all the time and floored super-middleweights. He should have not got in the ring against Medina as he had bad flu. He also had a cut from sparring the week before that his Mrs covered with make-up for the weigh-in. He was 22 at the time, should have pulled out of the fight, yet still beat a tough Mexican having his 11th world title fight. Medina had already been WBC and IBF champion, regained the IBF title after and won the WBO title SEVEN years later beating Scott Harrison in Glasgow.
Well I watched it and him well beaten It was years ago and I ain't sure with the cards I will take your word for it though Was the doctor not some way involved I thought I was pretty certain again it was long ago so my memory holds no weight
As i said mate medina was a good fighter albeit one who wasnt on the level of barrerra or morales,s. Point was regardless if naz had the flu or not medina timed him most of the night. Kevin kelley timed him most of the fight. Barrera definetely timed him. It did point towards good fighters being able to time him. People watching him against half decent opponents who couldnt do anything against him and reasoning that the top guys would be the same. The reality was they could hit him without too much difficulty. Kelley and medina could hit him. It does point towards barrera being able to hit him. And he did...often. Looking back at his career it did point towards what eventually happened...happening if that makes sense. No doubt people will be on to say he didnt do any training for barrerra and yet hes on record himself saying the problem was he lost 2 and a half stone for it to make weight...you d think by training hard. Basis for my classic bully comment was he was at his happiest beating on guys that werent on his level. He d get quite vicious with it at times. When he did start getting tagged tho he couldnt take it...either used excuses...fought dirty...to the point of outright cheating. Slamming people etc. Lost his composure. He never had the mindset to take what he gave out. That kind of showed because when barrera came calling he pretty much done all these things...then pretty much walked away completely afterwards. Made excuses for that fight. Now says it was hand trouble after years of no real reason for it. More excuses. Same with medina. No doubt if kelley won it would have been excuses. What other champion walked away at 28 with hand troubles. I cant think of any. I know plenty that went on to fight for years with hand troubles if anything. Even morales fought kelley three years later morales was young moving up in weight looked a lot lighter than kelley in the ring. It was pretty much a routine win for morales. Kelley didnt cause him any problems like he did naz. Never really took any or many clean shots. Thats a guy everyone puts down as being easy to hit. And someone a lot of people fancied naz against. The problem was they could do it all as barrera showed against naz. Not just brawlers but could box when needed etc. Morales would have done a number on naz as well. Although tbf naz could be a danger if he caught him at the right time in his career. Naz was great no argument but these guys we,re better for me. Barrera showed it. And they then went on to back it up. Naz lost made excuses. Never came back...made excuses. Back to the medina fight...first real test...ended up a struggle....for the first time we see excuses. Theres a link there i think.
You've developed a theory from watching youtube and you're sticking to it. A featherweight who smashed heavyweights in the gym is a bully? The reason Naz started getting caught in fights is because he wasn't training properly and was taking advice from his family and not his trainer.
I m asking then from what point did he stop listening to trainers. He left ingle to go to steward. Picked him himself then never listened to him. That not seem odd. Talks about him not training properly but kept himself at featherweight from robinson all the way to calvo his last fight. Someone not training properly wouldnt be able to do that. Contrary to the bottom line that hamed hardly trained for barrera...hes done an interview saying...the problem was he had to lose 2 and a half stone in 6 weeks to make it. What was he doing starving himself and not training to make the weight. I understand you were around the gym at the time. My guess is naz was the top dog because he was pretty much brendans best ever fighter. But dont for one minute think barrera or morales werent someones best ever fighter themselves. What was the standard of heavyweights naz was sparring. And how hard did they go at it. Isnt brendan known to be quite strict with his sparring. Bit wierd hes letting his best talent take on a fully fledged decent heavyweight full on sparring. Thats my take on it bent nose but i m open to your own interpretation of it.
