The better fight: Fight of the Century or Thrilla in Manilla?

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You can't. Or if you can i'd be interested to see. He called Frazier a ******, a house-******, a gorilla. He attacked the core of the man's race.

He didn't, to my knowledge. But in the run up to the second fight Frazier's children were being bullied at school and his life was being threatened by black supremacists. Ali was almost certainly aware of this but his . His attack intensified for the third fight inspite of these facts where a show of solidarity was well overdue. He was also of the opinion that Frazier was washed up. It didn't stop him seeking out and humiliating Frazier as well as threatening him with what appeared to be a firearm with no press or massed public anywhere in site.

Which one? The one I put up? It's printed, not filmed to my knowledge.

Well here's the thing - he had reason to hate him and he behaved like he hated him. You've declared it a "fact" that Ali didn't hate him - I submit that the weight of evidence is very much to the contrary.

Ali was far, far harder on his black opponents than his white ones, generally, but he was hardest of all on Frazier, even when he percieved him as no threat ("They told me you was washed up Joe"). If he didn't hate him, I would declare him psychotic, personally.

 

He had a lot of sympathy at the time.

But yes, he is certainly a bitter old man.

 

Nigger was the word Ali chose to use to describe Joe Frazier, over and again.

You think he thought Joe looked like a nigger too?

Twice. I wrote this article for an ESB website some months before the documentary:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2008/08/the-thirty-year-war-ali-vs-frazier/

So if your hysterical attack of the giggles is in some way meant to infer you think all my information is coming from that documentary i've already preceeded a detailed account of their rivalry in public. How many times have YOU seen it?

I thin your'e referring to Ali's apology to Marvis.

If you call threatening him with a gun, attacking him with the worst possible racial slurs "fun".

I've already challanged you to provide examples of attacks upon opponents anything like as horrific as the ones he levelled at Frazier, and you've failed to do so. That's because he was never as vicious with any opponent as he was with Joe, he didn't try as hard to sabotage any opponent as he did with Joe, he flat out wasn't has evil to any other opponent as he was with Joe. Terrell is the distant second. So no, that wasn't Ali. He called Patterson and Uncle Tom once I believe, and there were some uncomfortable racial moments with Terrell, but his attack on Frazier was on his entire relationship with his own race! "Any black man who supports Frazier is an Uncle Tom." That's an absolutley astonishing thing to say. The New York Daily News caleld his attempt to "whitewash" Frazier, "cruel and unworthy", and that was for the FOTC! By Manilla, be had gone way beyond "cruela and unworthy". For you to dismiss this as "Trying to get under Frazier's skin" is ridiculous, and very obviously ridiculous.

What is misleading? I've said that he did this when there was no press. There wasn't. The point I am making is that when Ali waved carrots at Patterson he made sure the press would be there. When Ali drove up on Liston's lawn he called the press first. When Ali called Foreman a mummy it was for the press he never went to Foreman's hotel room just to attack him. The "firearm incident" is the exact opposite. Whether he "worked around this schedule" or not, I don't know, I do know this wasn't a stunt for the press like most of his other "fun". This was about him and JOe.

Are you actually laughing when you post these emoticons?

I didn't say that this was the worst thing that Ali ever said in the ring. The point I am making to you, and I feel it should have been pretty clear, is that Ali's attack on Joe was most vicious when he believed he was in for his easiest fight. In Manilla he really went to town on a fighter he felt more sure he had the beating of than on the other two occasions. He didn't need to gain some supposed advantage (and actually, nursing Joe's hatred is the worst thing any fighter could do) by attacking Joe over and over again.

I think you perhaps need to actually provide evidence rather than opinion, especially if you're going to kick up such long posts.

Ali was nothing like as vicious with Terrell as he was with Frazier. So I don't really know what the **** that opinion is about.

 

Threads i've started in praise of Ali JUST in this month. I rate him top 10 p4p all time and #1 at HW:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157515

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155996

I'm actually accused of bias in favour of Ali in the first linked thread.

I'm a fan of Ali, yes.

 

Ah, don't say that.

It does get tough though. On the other hand, if i'm being accused by nut-huggers of hating a fighter and accused by the haters of hugging a fighter i know I have him about right.