The better fight: Fight of the Century or Thrilla in Manilla?

Your post (post 71) doesnt sound as if your highly amused, you seem troubled, maybe its just me.

Ps. I keep meaning to ask, how was that dinner with Conteh ?
On a 1-5 scale... 1 being **** & 5 being ecstatic ? :think

 

It is just you. Still, 'huggers' are the only people I love debating with on here, as I know their man-love will always be their undoing.

He didn't turn up. Ronnie Corbett had him done over again. :yep

 

Everyone needs some `hugging` sometimes, not sure about the man-love tho.

 

I've heard, read, and seen so much on the rivalry. Don't remember Ali calling him that countless. Now Uncle Tom I do.

Are you trying to evoke a reaction out of me rather than just accepting my first answer?

I skimmed it, I will read it in full later. But I see already highly disputed stuff in there. Joe claimed Ali said this “Don’t you know I’m God,” Ali offered. “God, you’re in the wrong place tonight. However Ali claims different. In fact he denies saying this on Champions Night Out dinner in 1988 saying he would never call himself God. Also, the documentary was actually finished in 2007 but released by HBO around early 09.

I don't think you'll ever find your N claim on tape, at least I haven't.

You challenged and I failed? Right. First of all it's time to show examples when we can't even agree on the level of things Ali said to Joe. Maybe because there's controversy on this, but in terms of public record you're extended this. Even the terribly slated Thrilla doc didn't mention Ali calling Frazier the N word.

He called Floyd an uncle tom once? Are you serious with trying to downplay every other thing. Ali proved hate against Terrel. He was spiteful and had a mean streak about him and the fight was highly criticized. That is easily the first display of Ali's anger and hate. If Ali had trouble with other fighters he would have said the same ol "If you back him you're an uncle tom" had he had any trouble with them... but he didn't.

Went over the first part. This is what you don't get. Ali had a rivarly with Joe. The first man to beat him. There was media, there was attention, there was 3 fights. Ali had a chance to do a whole lot and maybe disliked Joe for beating him. Personally, I don't see hate if you look within at the things he says and how he does it. Show me anything Ali does to Joe or say to Joe without it looking like clowning. If you can't see it or you can't see how it's Ali then you don't know Ali. You look at the actions, or what he said and maybe it's disgraceful and unjustifable but that's not relevant. You said Ali clearly hated Joe. I don't believe that.

No you don't. More presumptious, no surprise coming from McGrain. I explained the circumstance of Manilla. Press was always all over. Now you think Ali purposely went out of his wat when the press wasn't present to do this sort of thing? Nonsense.

You're ******ed if you can't see within the context of things. I've provided enough examples and facts. You make claims that have can't be backed up by any film. Ali was menacing towards Terrel in and out of the ring. It was the only time he brought true hostility. All of Ali's "You know how I prepare for Joe Frazier, I go to the zoo!" were all done almost half jokingly. You can't deny this. I have tons of this on film.

When they throw a Gorilla stuffed animal in the ring and says "That's Joe Frazier! That's Joe Frazier! Get him out, I'm scared." I'm not saying this action isn't right or justified. Or when Ali is beating on a mini gorrel saying "Come on Gorilla, we in Manilla" and laughing, it's not right but it's not done menacing. Even Don King made a sour face about that.

I will agree that Ali thought down of Joe. He thought was a victim of circumstance and I do believe he thought he was ignorant.


-- By the way I'm just as much an Ali fan as a Frazier fan. Just calling it truthfully.

 

I don't believe Ali hated Joe Frazier.

With Ali, it was all about narcissism, showmanship. The inarticulate Frazier was a perfect foil.

Ali simply, gleefully, crossed the line time and again with Joe. It was utter stupidity to disrespect such a decent man as Frazier that way. Since kindergarten, we sometimes come across someone who just seems irresistibly vulnerable to taunting. Joe had helped Ali before their first meeting. It was delicious justice that Ali paid at FOTC.

But hate? I don't see it. I am confident anyone who knows Ali would reject the notion. He didn't even express hatred after being stripped of his title. In his way, Ali was a religious man. After taking his lumps at FOTC, the very moment to show hatred at his conqueror, Ali gave Frazier credit and spoke of redemption, but never hatred. Why should he have harbored hatred years later in Manila of a man he had taken revenge from, who had been turned into a basketball by a monster he had since slain, and was by then seen as nonthreatening?

I see utter stupidity, not hatred, from Ali.

 

i've noticed all the fighters that still called ali CLAY he wanted to embarass - patterson, terrell, bonavena and frazier all called him CLAY.

 

:happy Terrific post. From reading biographies to reading his autobiography to hearing with other's thought this would lead you to probably believe that he crossed the line with Joe and made wrong choices but didn't hate him.

In 1990 for the FOTC CBS documentary on the fight Ali said he loved Joe Frazier and that Joe Frazier made him what he was. He also talked about how he said so many things and can't believe it and doesn't remember saying so many things and how he was such a riot.

In 1975 before the Thrilla in Manilla fight, Ali said this. "I just like talking about him, he's a nice fellow. Just makes him hot, ya know, I want to get him real made. Because when the man gets mad he gets so made and wants to get you so bad and he don't think. So I like to get him mad."

 

Right on :good

Ali was too much in love with himself as to waste energies hating Frazier or anybody else.

 

Great post. Nowadays,I think Ali's narcissism has taken a knock from the Parkinson's arising out of the sustained brain damage he took from the Thrilla onwards.Frazier has publicly expressed his satisfaction at Ali's present medical condition.

I guess-at least on the personal level- Ali,himself, must be a saint not to have a little bit of ill will towards Joe.

 

Yep, very true.... & they all did pay in some way.

 

Dont think it really matters if Ali called Frazier a ****** or not, loads of black guys call each other that without it meaning anything bad, its no big deal I wouldnt think.

 

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