The bigest disgrace in sport

Because you start off the conversation by talking down to people. I'm a big historian and I love debating history but when you start off by calling people stupid, they tend to get disintersted in your argument.

Now I went a little far calling you the **** beneath my boot, but you really pissed me off. And I also know that you were mostly reacting to the anti-American sentiment always on display from Jasper and others. But every military historian who is remotely unbiased will tell you exactly what I did.

As far as me being a phony, you may believe what will you will. I could tell you to check my post history and see that I did not just make that claim when it was convenient. I could tell you to check with the handful of posters on this site who know me outside of it and see if they don't validate my claim. I could tell you that one of the places I was stationed at is called FOB Iskandariyah. The Marines called it Camp Chosen. I could tell you that the biggest city near me was Musayib and the military designations for the major routes near us were Tampa, San Juan, and Patty. And all of this is not exactly wikipedia quality information. I could tell you to go look at my profile picture right now and compare the gentleman in the current picture to the one standing in front of the labrynth at Babylon that I would post when I got home and uploaded the picture from my home computer.....I could do all that if only I cared a little more what your opinion of me is.

 

I am no historian, but this is true. The Germans beat the russians like floyd beat gatti, mercilessly. Like others countries before them, the germans made a critical mistake. Over extended their lines into Russia over winter and a country the size of california was nearly successful in dominating all of Europe.

 

I didn't start off by calling anyone stupid. secondly, I thrive off of debate, and to debate one of your points, you telling me every unbiased military historian would tell me the same thing you did is laughably false. lastly, it's funny that you said you could do all of that if you cared a little more about my opinion of you. you didn't show me those things, but you told me those things existed...isn't that second to actually showing me them? if you didnt care, you wouldnt have bothered with that long paragraph. I dont wanna argue with you anymore, you're the most level headed it seems. I just completely disagree with you and believe what you say to be false.

 

This isn't true at all. You have no clue what you're talking about, but that's fine. I wouldn't expect any different. Just like I don't expect a respectful or educated response from someone spineless such as yourself.

Beyond primary school, we are taught to view history from the POV that it has been changed and manipulated, is told by the perspective of the victors, and is told to portray certain aspects in certain lights. We are taught in high school to question our nations' own history and what is chosen to emphasize in national history books. We read excerpts of history books from Germany, England, Japan, and other places around the world of similar events to compare and contrast how they are portrayed.

Americans know we didn't enter the war because we were only two decades removed from the last time Germany decided to take over Europe. It was fresh in Americans' mind, who were reluctant to go to war in the first place in WWI due to the large percentage of those with German heritage. We know it was a mistake. However, we also know that we did eventually get involved and without ALL THREE of England, Russia, and the US, the world would be vastly different and an evil Germany would have reigned supreme far longer.

Germans also pretend that the tons and tons of food that fell from the sky on Eastern Germany came from the heavens and not USA airplanes. They also pretend it was the Americans and not the Russians who were raping and suppressing that entire half of the nation. They also pretend that it wasn't England and the US who fought for the economic and social rights of Germany and also negotiated Russia's tyranny out of Germany.

But hey, continue with the anti-American sentiment. I just hope you will someday pick up a world history textbook and study up on your false theories of global history.

 

THIS is a funny post...

NoCoolFool clearly never went to college or he would know that what he described is what you do in high school and college is a step beyond that. But hey, what do I know?

 

Are you suggesting that Hitlers thoughts and intentions of and for the jews was a secret. OMG, sorry I meant ARMS sales . . . you act like you had no idea what I was talking about. It was AMERICAN PRIVATE INDUSTRY THAT HELPED BUILD UP THE NAZI REGIME. . . is that in a language that you can understand? American Companies and arms dealers had provided and still provide weaponry to those who are considered less savory.

Clausewits died almost a century before the War even started . . . I am sure his writings have a detailed account of WWII (LOL). My best Friend and former Professor Isaac Saney (look him up) is an expert on Cuba and the Cold War. If you want to know what really happened in WWII I will give you his email Address:deal . . . stupid Fu(ker

 

I did have no idea what you were talking about. don't expect me to understand you if you say military sales, and you mean american private industry. america is not communist. private industry and military are not one entity in the U.S. I know that's not what you meant, but not before you clarified that incoherent bull**** you typed earlier. "AMERICAN PRIVATE INDUSTRY HELPED BUILD UP THE NAZI REGIME." once again with the false, ambiguous statements. a few companies sold arms to the Germans well before they were using their war machine for nothing short of evil. once the war began it became physically impossible. and explain with your revisionist bull****, how people knew about the final solution before it happened?

also, the fact that you said clausewitz died a century before the war started as a way to debunk his theories on every war that ever existed since his death, automatically disqualifies you from this argument. you are a mongoloid, my friend, and not worth my time. you do Professor Saney a disservice by even associating yourself with him:-(.

 

Damn this thread took off fast didn't it.

Thats all well and good and all of the above reason's for the Nazi collapse are all true as well as many, many other factors but the decision to march East, and the stubborn and courageous resistance offered up by the under equiped, under fed Russians is what ultimately gave the Allies their momentum swing.

"Intense descrimination" :shock: Poor baby. Do you know what happened to Nazi dissidents? How many civil rights activists were systematically tortured and murdered by their own government? There is absolutely no way you can really justify your comparison. Also can you point me in the direction of the Death camps in the US where blacks were killed on mass. I think they would be interesting to visit.

Quote : "why didn't german citizens do anything about it? they were scared? that's gutless, and must be the reason Germany as a country is still barely rising from the ashes of its past. you can never touch me when it comes to history"

Considering the fight Germany put up in WW2 calling them gutless is a stretch and as to why they allowed it to happen, well you're a history guru so why even ask that? You're obviously well versed on the effects of economic isolation, poverty, propaganda, scapegoating, etc. It's not as if the Germans are the first nation to fall in love with a Liar with a silver tongue, who promises them wealth and prosperity when these things are hard to come by. Then rules with an iron fist.

and how exactly are they still rising from the ashes? This isn't Iraq we are talking about. This is one of the worlds wealthiest countries, with a highly educated and skilled workforce, great healthcare and an international reputation that is currently damn near flawless.


America had no choice but to get involved. How do you think you would of fared against a united Europe under the Nazi's. Remember efforts to stop the Nazi's developing a Nuclear capacity didn't start in ernest till 1942. It seems reasonable the assume that non intervention by the US would have allowed this reasearch to continue unabated.


Not sure if any of the above had already been answered. I only got as far as the above post from m8te.

 

LOL, my point was that Clausewitz would not be privy to the information of WWII and i never said it debunks his theories at all! You want some info follow the link:

http://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2

So what you are saying if a country or person declares evil intention no one should act until they commit an evil act? Are you serious? What is all of this rhetoric against Iraq and now Iran?

 

From memory American companies built massive infrastucture in Germany during the 20's and 30's. Most important of all were chemical plants and automotive manufacturing facilities that were converted to create Tanks, planes and other machinery of war. There's lots of data out there that definately points to collaboration between Wealthy American's and the Nazi's. The Eugenics (spelling?) movement is worth looking into in regard to this are their shameful actions during the period weren't hidden too effectively.

 

there's a long history of discrimination and dehumanization before 1968 in america, starting with slavery, something that lasted 300 years, uprooted people from their homeland, resulted in a death toll that simply cannot even have a number added to it. I'm not going to go any further in comparing everything that happened to blacks starting with slavery and ending in 1968, to the holocaust in germany. I respect each struggle entirely, I am black american and I have entirely too many jewish friends to do such a thing.

also, I didn't call german fighters gutless, I called the reason no one tried to topple the third reich fro the inside aside from valkyrie gutless, and it is. being scared is no reason to sit idly while millions of people, including former neighbors, friends, classmates, business partners, etc. are mercilessly killed because of their religion. that's gutless, and there's no reason why at least one group other than the people who carried out valkyrie made an effort to at least get the ball rolling that would result in a revolution.

when I said rising from the ashes, I didn't mean literally. are you kidding me bro? i'm talking about historically. Germans still have trouble facing their dark past is what I mean, and if you deny that you're lying.

lastly, the reasons america got involved really dont mean much, clearly we disagree on that, the point is, american industry and military getting involved and becoming an ally brought the finishing blow to an already declining regime, one that was declining because of tactical errors made by its fuhrer.

 

point duly noted:rofl

 

sick wiki work bro. nevertheless, my original point against his was to challenge and debunk his absurd point about the american government supplying the german war machine. saying there was collaboration between wealthy americans and the Nazi's proves nothing about america aside from the fact that we are a democracy and can do whatever we want with out money. germany was not a belligerent toward america in the 20's and most of the 30's, so your point is totally inapplicable. if you mean to say there are some greedy americans that can care less about morality., that exists everywhere. just take a look at Nazi Germany