"The bigger the trees the harder they are to cut down"- Sonny Liston

He did when he fought Kid Norfolk .. in those fights, for almost the only time you hear about the opponents huge weight advantage over Greb but it rarely is mentioned in his dominant victories ..

 

Maybe, or maybe not.

We just don't know.

 

Do you actually believe this ? Let's start with Vitali. How do you think fights between Vitali would play out with the following ?

Gene Tunney ?
Max Schmeling ?
Joe Walcott ?
Rocky Marciano ?
Floyd Patterson ?

No need for long synopsis, just who wins ..

 

Povetkin is a talented fighter, but is he really that big?

Joshua looks like the goods, but he could yet be a complete bust.

As for Wilder, Pulev, and Fury, they are just ordinary.

 

Do I believe this era is almost completely devoid of talent? Yes.
Do I believe the fighters above would have a chance? Yes.
Do I believe that Vitali tore his shoulder up by punching air against Byrd? Yes.

If this era isnt so devoid of talent why is everyone focused solely on size? Because thats usually the only thing you here about todays HWs. When people often bring up how Vitali fights similar to Willard you have a talent gap between this era and previously.

You seriously think the above fighters would have no chance whatsoever? That they wouldnt have any chance with the champions or rather more importantly the pathetic challengers of todays champions? I disagree.

 

Well I guess Jack Johnson, Harry Wills, Sugar Ray, Duran, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford, and 15 other guys in the Hall of fame who also quit, sometimes with lesser injures are in the same boat...if we are being fair and balanced.

A better way to look at it is Vitali who was prepping for Razor Rud**** took the fight in less than two weeks notice vs. a prime level Chris Byrd, and was way ahead on points. Vitali who knows a lot about the anatomy decided to retired when his hand went numb rather than risk further injury to the shoulder. I think he did not know the negative reaction he would get from the Western Press. This was the thing to do in the amateurs. If this fight would have been for higher stakes, I think he finishes the fight and wins it.

One of Ali’s best quotes ( Who by the way wanted to quit vs. Liston, and was talked out of it by Dundee ) was this.

“ Most fighters can get up but choose not to. “

Other times we see fighters withdrawing from the fight to go the distance. Isn’t that a form of quitting too? Even Rocky Marciano who had as much heart as anyone once fouled out / quit an amatuer match because he wasn’t in shape for it.

 

I would say the light heavyweight division today is not void of talent at all. Quite the reverse. So why don't we see guys moving to to fight the champion like in past decades?

Did Hagler want fight Spinks or Quai at 175 pounds? No way. For a smaller guy giving up 5 pound above their best weight is like giving up 15 pounds.

Simple physics. Sure Roy Jones cherry picked Johnson Ruiz ( At least one was on steroids then ), but declined matches vs Lewis, Sanders and Klitschko.

The game has changed. When you have to watch out for long ranged and accurate artillery that could knock you out, those without the range are on the defensive. 50 years back there were almost no skilled super heavyweights.

If you have time, add up all of Bowe's, Lewis' and Klitschko fights. How many do you have? 300+ total fights? Now tell me how many decisions they lost as a group? Just one and it was controversial. This is not an accident, and the 1990's and early 2000's as you know were a talented time in the heavyweight divisions.

 

Janitor,

That depends on how you define big. Povetkin looks to have a 18.5 to 19" neck and a large chest, though I never saw an official tale of the tape.

Povetkin is about 6'2" tall and 225-230 pounds with a 75" reach. This would be big until the early 1980's. Today its average.

Fury has actually improved a bit. Wilder is packing glass but he can box and punch. Joshua? Offensively I'm sold. Defensively I am not.

 

Wlad Klitschko is fantastically talented.

Just watch his lateral movement. If he were scaled down to 190 lbs.

I think he still easily beats the likes of a Patterson.

The only questions are chin and stamina, but Patterson was plenty chinny himself, and a lighter Wlad most likely would have greater stamina.

Because of the huge size disparity, I don't see the old champions having much of a chance against him for the most part.

Despite his bad losses when younger, he looks like he's going to make the top five even on resume.

All that said, I wish someone would have taken up the issue of why Liston's KO ratio against over 200 pounders is 81% versus only 62% against under 200 pounders, as this is a real world and not a fantasy question.

 

Lol. What the hell is 'modern skilled' heavyweights:roflatsch

HW's who can do nothing more than the basics?

You're talking about Wlad , yeah? A guy who hides his lack of skill through constant holding isn't modern skilled.

The skills that were once in the division are not there anymore.

Take it from people in the know like Ali Bashir- Wlads assistant trainer.
He said the trainers are not out there anymore. If the trainers are not there , how can the talent be?

 

I love how some on here expect 6-6 245 pound giants to operate techniques of a 6 footer and give up their physical advantages. At a certain point, superheavy skills differ from "normal" heavy skills. If you don't think so, watch Rid**** Bowe get his brain disassembled by the age of 28 by spending too much time trying to play the smaller man's game.

 

Wlad doesn't have a clue about fighting inside.

Teddy Atlas gives Wlad little,chance against many champs, he says he lacks the character of a true warrior.:think

 

It's one thing to prefer the way Cruiserweight sized fighters fight because it's generally more entertaining, and there's nothing wrong with that. Being more visually pleasing on film, however, doesn't make them better H2H fighters than big men with both talent and skill. Sometimes, film lies. This is one of those times.

 

Johnson was 49 when he retired in his corner against Bob Lawson he had been floored in the previous round. Vitali was 29 when he quit to Byrd he was well in front and could have coasted to a decision. Spot the difference? Vitali is 5.5inches taller than Byrd and was 34 lbs heavier.
His injury was a torn rotator cuff the same injury Pac man carried for 12 round s against Mayweather, the same injury Buddy McGirt came into the ring with against Whitaker. .
Vitali took the fight on two weeks notice and Byrd took it on ten days notice who was supposed to fight Clay- Bey.

Stop making excuses for him ,he flat out quit in a fight in which he was way ahead.

Byrd, in training for a fight against Lawrence Clay-Bey, took the fight on ten days notice after the original challenger, Donovan "Razor" Ruddock, pulled out due to a hepatitis infection.
Klitschko retired on his stool after the ninth round due to a shoulder injury. He was later diagnosed with a torn rotator cuff.
After Klitschko quit, HBO commentator Larry Merchant said, "He doesn’t have the mentality of a champion. I can hardly believe what I just saw."

 

Teddy Atlas. Two things to know.

1 ) He is a biased ***** and has antipathy toward most Eastern European fighters.

2 ) You can make a lot of money picking the other fighter as he's wrong more than anyone else I've seen in the media.

Two books says Johnson quit, and there are many references for it. Adam was nice enough to show me four sources of the Klondike fight, each said something else! How he knows for sure which source is correct? He doesn't. Its his interpretation. There are many ways to quit in a fight.

You are hung up on weight at times but you fail to use your same standards on fighters you like. What does Byrd's weight have to do with the result? The only reason Byrd won was the torn shoulder injury. That's it.