The Boxing is Dead Masterlog Hall of Shame

Maidanas Gun Tattoo · Nov 29, 2023

Diagoras said: ↑

I wasn't saying affluence explained decling of US dominance in heavier weight classes with that sentence. Rather that was a response to these people always crying about how Boxing was bigger than Baseball at 1 point & how that proves their point about how Boxing is dying. Well when that was the case, there was no TV, smartphones, & internet (which allow you to tune in to what you want at a moments notice) & none of the dozen or so other sports competing for peoples attention & life was a lot harder (so the public probably had a better appreciation for Boxing without constant cries for bans citing safety)

I do think affluence isn't exactly the best for Boxing success & I think if Japan was less affluent it would be producing even more Boxing talent but that's not exactly what one should wish for. We know how many Boxers came from very harsh lives of poverty & if you look at the trends within US Boxing, is it a coincidence that Irish, Italian, & Jewish Americans produced top talent in Boxing in the 1st half of the 20th century when they were new immigrants mired in poverty. As these groups became more affluent, all that diminished because it makes far more sense to go become an accountant or a lawyer rather than risk CTE, coma, & death for money.

I think it was Johnny Kilbane who said if someone could show him a way to make the money he was making Boxing, he would stop Boxing. He was part of the early 20th century Irish American immigrant stock which saw Jimmy Mclarnin, Jim Braddock, Mickey Walker, Gene Tunney, & other big ATG's

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Supposedly 200,000 people came out to welcome Kilbane in Cleveland on St. Patrick's day after he won the FW title off Abe Attell (a Jewish American Boxer), many of these people would have been Irish Americans

As for the loss of US dominance in heavier weight classes, I never bought the NFL/NBA crap excuse, & it is partly explained by the fact that all those Eastern Euros kept out of the pro scene were suddenly allowed to become pros, & more international competition means its harder for 1 country to dominate. We also have to remember that Eastern Euros being kept out was the perfect recipe for US HW dominance because they can get as big as Westerners where as Japanese, Koreans, Thais, Filipinos & Latin Americans rarely do (so even though all these were allowed to be pro Boxers during the cold war, it was unlikely that they would produce HW stars)
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This is why it’s always so stupid when fans, and even fighters like Canelo say, “he’s just looking for a big payday”. Well yea, duh. That’s the exact reason they are fighting. It’s not for fans, or glory. They want to make money, we pay to see a fight. None of these guys would be risking their health for free as an adult. And I fully agree with the nfl nba excuse. That’s all it is, an excuse. Being big doesn’t automatically make a great fighter.

Decker · Nov 29, 2023

Diagoras said: ↑

I wasn't saying affluence explained decling of US dominance in heavier weight classes with that sentence.
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Sure, I wasn't implying that you did. I made the connection between the two paras. I agree that in general affluence does not tend to produce top fighters. Japan appears to be an exception. Of course it's in the lighter divisions for reasons you alluded to later.

Rather that was a response to these people always crying about how Boxing was bigger than Baseball at 1 point & how that proves their point about how Boxing is dying. Well when that was the case, there was no TV, smartphones, & internet (which allow you to tune in to what you want at a moments notice) & none of the dozen or so other sports competing for peoples attention & life was a lot harder (so the public probably had a better appreciation for Boxing without constant cries for bans citing safety)

I do think affluence isn't exactly the best for Boxing success & I think if Japan was less affluent it would be producing even more Boxing talent but that's not exactly what one should wish for. We know how many Boxers came from very harsh lives of poverty & if you look at the trends within US Boxing, is it a coincidence that Irish, Italian, & Jewish Americans produced top talent in Boxing in the 1st half of the 20th century when they were new immigrants mired in poverty. As these groups became more affluent, all that diminished because it makes far more sense to go become an accountant or a lawyer rather than risk CTE, coma, & death for money.

I think it was Johnny Kilbane who said if someone could show him a way to make the money he was making Boxing, he would stop Boxing. He was part of the early 20th century Irish American immigrant stock which saw Jimmy Mclarnin, Jim Braddock, Mickey Walker, Gene Tunney, & other big ATG's

This content is protected

Supposedly 200,000 people came out to welcome Kilbane in Cleveland on St. Patrick's day after he won the FW title off Abe Attell (a Jewish American Boxer), many of these people would have been Irish Americans.
Click to expand...

Agree. Those various immigrants from Europe had it tough. The way it's taught today is that only one group had it rough & tough in the US. Sure most blacks led a hard life, but in a generally wealthy nation. So they always had top talent throughout the 20th century. When the also had it rough Euros started becoming largely middle class, their output of top talent declined. Black Ams, especially in the heavier divisions, continued to produce high end talent. But soon Hispanics - US or otherwise - increasingly started emerging.
Then... the Soviet Union broke up. The rest is recent history. What I find amusing is how many US fans - many here - have their undies in knots over these developments.

As for the loss of US dominance in heavier weight classes, I never bought the NFL/NBA crap excuse, & it is partly explained by the fact that all those Eastern Euros kept out of the pro scene were suddenly allowed to become pros, & more international competition means its harder for 1 country to dominate. We also have to remember that Eastern Euros being kept out was the perfect recipe for US HW dominance because they can get as big as Westerners where as Japanese, Koreans, Thais, Filipinos & Latin Americans rarely do (so even though all these were allowed to be pro Boxers during the cold war, it was unlikely that they would produce HW stars)
Click to expand...

This.

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The Boxing is Dead Masterlog Hall of Shame

Maidanas Gun Tattoo Well-Known Member Full Member

Decker Boxing Addict Full Member

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The Boxing is Dead Masterlog Hall of Shame

Maidanas Gun Tattoo Well-Known Member Full Member

Decker Boxing Addict Full Member