The Brown Bomber vs Big George.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shake, Aug 9, 2007.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Louis took a few flush right hands from Baer. He just battened down the hatches and took them.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes he did hurt Baer badly, buckled his knees I think in round 5. Baer admitted as much and Braddock admitted to being stunned himself, and partly blamed this for his failure to follow up. This was inspite of a boxing strategy that he adopted specifically for the fight.

    If you're not going to dispute it are you going to restore Baer to your calculations? Or continue to leave him of for the sake of convenience?

    We are not talking about the way up. We are talking about the hardest fights Braddock had at heavy. The best fighters he ever took on. Can't you see the difference? Really? Losing decision after decision before his rest, failing to ko guys over and over again and then decking quality fighters on his comeback? Including iron chinned Lewis? It's as plain as day that he is a different prospect power wise.

    I've said it before but I will say it again as clearly as I can - I am not talking about Braddock's career. I am talking about Braddock after his comeback. Everything you have said above is true and irrelevant.


    I've never called him a wrecking machine. Those are your words, interesting choice.

    I consider the Braddock that took on Baer a big puncher.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    While Foreman as you say had many aditional talents over Baer or Shavers I am not sure that the execution if a single punch was one of them.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Foreman is much more of an offensive threat due to his better overall package. My meanderings have never claimed he punches harder with a single punch than Baer or Shavers nor claimed Baer wasn't a big puncher. Boxing is full of massive punching guys who didn't have the class to take the belt, some didn't even fight for it. Shavers and Baer are two perfect examples of monster punchers of their day who didn't have what it took to win the title. John Mugabi, same boat. Miranda from the modern day i follow with interest.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think speaking generally you are right.

    But for me both Baer and Shavers would pose a greater threat to Louis than Foreman. Everything about Foreman boxing just screams "wrong" for Joe Louis I think.
     
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I would debate heavily that Foreman is infinitely more dangerous to Louis. What does Shavers do better than Foreman? Foreman matches his power, both have ordinary stamina, both a bit slow and wide, Foreman has better timing, uses his strength better, overall better two handed attack, better jab, and perhaps most important of all, a FAR better chin. Shavers with his highly suspect chin is far more suited to an early night vs the Bomber. Louis only need land a good'un or two. Not so vs Foreman, he's far more likely to survive and remain dangerous.
     
  7. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Ha ha, I was waiting for that useless old chesnut. Fighters hardly ever say the guy that starched them was the biggest hitter- i thought you'd know that- and they always say the guy they hammered was the top whacker. I could give you a million examples (but I'm off to the match in 10 minutes and I couldn't be arsed anyway), so i'll give you last one I read, just this week: Henry Clark said the hardest puncher was not Shavers (who blasted him out), not Liston (who minced him) or even Foreman (whom he sparred with) but...Eddie Machen and guess what? He just happened to beat Machen. :lol:
     
  8. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Two questions. Play 'yes' and 'no'.


    Was Braddock a ko artist at top level heavyweight?


    Did Braddock punch harder than Ali?


    Remember, 'yes' or 'no'.
     
  9. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    ...and by the way, what difference does it make if we did include Baer in the 'averages'? :huh
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No.


    No.


    I can't anwer this with a yes/no. What I will say is that Braddock's hardest punch (overhand right) was harder than Ali's hardest punch (...overhand right?).
     
  11. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Well the fact you have some doubts says it all becuase Ali wasn't a big hitter. He was a fair puncher- probbaly like Braddock, but nothing more. Right, I bid thee farewell, because:



    This content is protected



    :good
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You have excluded Baer from your calculations regarding the average weight of the fighters that Braddock Ko'd or hurt because you felt that Braddock hadn't hurt him.

    I disagreed.

    Given that you calculated Braddock's average opponents weight post-retirement as 186 i'm going to assume that including Baer (210 ish) would lift that average.

    Not that it really matters, apart from Baer Lewis would be the hardest to drop and was the lightest.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't have any doubt that Braddock's hardest punch is harder than Ali's hardest punch. I thought I made that part clear.

    My point was that your question is far to complex for a yes no.

    Ali may have had a harder jab for example.

    Enjoy the game.
     
  14. KTFO

    KTFO Guest

    Just rewatched Foreman/Ali,Young,Morrison and boy,how he beat the shyte out of those guys although he lost.
    No chance Louis would survive this kind of punishment more than 2 rounds. :smooch
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    How do you score Foreman-Ali?