The build-up of Mike Tyson

Nothing came crashing down that remotely compares to the **** trial and conviction. That sealed his fate. Not anything he did or didn't do in the ring. He'd put himself back in position to regain the title, and it ended there. I'd be more inclined to agree if he'd completely fallen apart post-Douglas. Instead he KO1ed Tillman and Stewart then beat the No. 2 in the division in back-to-back fights.

 

Maybe so.

You've got me Tyson-ed out though, Conn.

Nausea setting in, round-robin discussion for basically days circling the same wagons. Need a break.

 

I would say no. His post prison form looks very similar to his first fight with Bruno; sloppy, unbalanced and offbeat. Maybe prison gave him some needed rest but fighting wise he never recaptured the fluidness (is that a word?) and timing in his prime. He seemed to prepare better for Seldon and Bruno than he did for Holyfield. So who knows how far he would have gone pre-prison. I believe he beats Holyfield in a brawl for it all since he wanted to regain the title badly, but might lose focus somewhere down the line like he did after Spinks.

 

You're right. Yeah, it's funny that before the DOuglas loss Tyson beat everyone but Ali in almost every hypothetical head to head article that was out there.

 

His troubles were also well documented and he didnt fight Holyfield until years later. Tyson did reach the pinnacle unifying all three titles and beating the supposed heir apparent so he did accomplish everything in front of him.

Even Holyfield after winning the title over Douglas was a question mark facing Tyson. Holyfield had some rough fights leading up to his showdown with Tyson and most people didnt see him as a massive challenge for even the unfocused version of Tyson.

The problem was that Tyson was knocking guys out and bringing so much excitement it blinded people to the fact that his personal life and discipline as a fighter which were unraveling on television in front of everyone had to effect his professional career at some point.

 

There was a Tommy Brooks interview on here a couple of years back, he stated Tyson only trained for 2 weeks for holyfield

 

Prime Mike Tyson was ****ing awesome! He would matchup well with any past great.

 

Solid post especially the part in bold.

I would personally say that Tyson's 80s were greater than Ali's 60s. Tyson's 90s fall well below the mark of what Ali did in the 70s and that among many things is what separates their legacy.

You have to remember the level of expectations for Tyson were very different from just about any fighter in modern history.

Neither Louis, Ali, Holyfield, Lewis, Holmes nor Frazier carried the same level of expectation from the public and pundits in the same manner as Mike Tyson.

Ali had to consistently prove himself in the ring until it was widely believed that he is indeed one of the greatest to ever live. He had to consistently charm the public, from what it appeared. His victories validated him.

Same with Lewis; who despite being criticized pulled a Sonny Liston by cleaning a slew of contenders stepped up to the big time and meeting Holyfield in 1999 to make his case as the number 1. And even then there were doubts in his ability.

Holyfield was considered small until he proved himself in the Bowe fights as a legitimate Heavyweight Champion. He was loved and respected but grossly underrated and under appreciated. It was only after he beat Mike Tyson in 1996 that he got the respect that evaded him all those years.

Holmes reigned longer than anybody not named Joe Louis but the public never cared for him and he was almost always one fight away from being sent to oblivion where he "belonged." Yeah he was good but I don't think anybody really expected this guy to be the one to tie Rocky Marciano's 49-0 or reach Joe Louis's record 25 title defenses but he almost did. His standing improved over time and rightfully so.

Tyson on the other hand as a result of the marketing strategy of Cayton and Jacobs set the bar unrealistically high. He had the platform that none of his peers had; the pundits and public alike believed in his ability so much that they expected him not only to break records but to rule almost unchallenged for a decade. He is the last Heavyweight Champion who had the public backing him the new guy to top the list as the consensus number 1 ATG HW and to surpass Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. It's precisely the reason why Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Klitshcko would never get the same amount of chances that Mike got and not get written off.

He was already being considered a special fighter even before he beat Berbick and it was validated he unified.

Had Tyson beaten Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe after prison he would be conservatively in the same tier as Louis and Ali and his popularity and success would on many people's lists propel him to the top spot.

That much I am certain.

 

Euuueww, that's a tall order.

I guess that's really why Ali has a slam dunk case for GOAT Heavyweight though. Tyson needed those guys to be available to him when he was at his dominant best. I think if he'd at least gotten a crack at Holyfied in 1991 and was able to regain his title - even having to vacate it to serve his prison term - he'd come out looking so much better legacy wise today. Even leaving everything post-prison unaltered. Instead weve got a guy who did enough to make the top ten, was arguably the most dominant ever at cleaning out a division and has skills in spades.

 

I am always saddened that they never manage to catch his fire breathing and lightning shooting on film.

 

Or his laser eyes And ability to fly at teh speed of sound. :rofl:rofl