The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PowerPuncher, Oct 1, 2007.


  1. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    That's fine but some people here argue Dempsey is a bum or something, not u but some other idiots
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But the following is true:

    There is an overall maximum amount of force that any human can generate.

    The increments between "levels" of power change by tiny amounts in real terms at the very top of the scale (think of the % of total weight added to a bench press with progress, huge at low levels, tiny at the highest levels).

    Dempsey hits harder than all other men of around 190lbs (arguably).

    Lewis is a very hard hitter at 230lbs.

    If all of this is true, how much difference can there be between their hardest punches? When we say Dempsey "punches above his weight", what do we mean?


    I would use a similair argument concerning chin. If size is a precluding factor, why is it that Audley Harrison has such a bad chin? I would argue that the Sprott shot that dropped Harrison would not have dropped the smaller Archie Moore. Your thoughts?
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    It is when you have two athletes who's athleticism and competition levels are so far apart, that they aren't even in the same league.
     
  4. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If Moore had been standing in the position Harrison was, as un-alert to the incomming punch, hit in the same place by the same punch, he'd at least have been knocked down for a long count.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Landing a huge conter depends upon:

    Cool head, not getting hit by the punch you are countering (if you want to fire properly), not getting knocked out by the original punch, not getting countered on your counter (and remember, Dempsey isn't standing still, just over-reaching) etc.etc. But I agree that countering is the way to get Demspey and I agree that the fight - you're talking about Lewis, right? - would indeed be unlikely to see 12.

    I've never disputed that - I just don't think that Lewis would neccesarily be in a hurry to push him out, that's all. Lewis is a match for Demspey on the inside in my opinion because of his superior size and great infighting skills. If he keeps pushing Dempsey back my opinion is that Dempsey will repeatedly get inside - triple jab or not - and score. Lewis wants him on the inside, smother him and bully him.



    I'm assuming Lennox at 100% here. Give me the Lennox of the McCall/Rahman fiasco, or even the Bruno guy and I'll give you Lennox leaving on a stretcher.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But you'd agree that Moore has better punch resistance than Harrison?
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    There is a huge difference between 6'5", 230 Lbs and 6'0", 190 Lbs.

    Not to mention, size is only part of the equation. Lewis would kill Dempsey.
     
  8. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    yeah becuase Lewis killed every small man right. No offense but u also argued Holyfield would "easily" beat Louis which is very unrealistic. Again no offense but u just don't seem to be able to understand Dempsey, Louis or other fighters of the era. Given Lewis's style he isn't killng either Marciano or Dempsey
     
  9. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well I personally consider there to be two thing that make up a chin. Some people say it is flesh and bone, but I disagree.

    I believe there is structural chin, which results from the fighters atanomy.

    And chin resulting from the fighters alertness.


    I doubt Moore's chin is structurally much stronger. But Harrison is simply a dopey boxer. Assuming Harrison's level of alertness, I doubt Moore would fair much better at all.
     
  10. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Would any fighter at all fair better?
     
  12. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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  13. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    McCall I'd imagine. Plenty others too.
     
  14. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Excellent post, I agree whole heartidly.

    One point is, how big would Dempsey be if he had grown up in a world with modern nutrition. Height and muscle mass has gone up on average for the whole population because of better nutrition and less poverty. Also how big would he be with modern supplements, steroids and weight training?
     
  15. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    like 210 pounds