The case for Lennox Lewis being GOAT

There is also a limit, otherwise we could also say that Lewis would be too weak pysically against Valuev or so. At a weight, I say spontaneous ca. 200 lbs, upward, there aren´t that many differences like in the lower weights, where every lbs are important...

 

A D-Class fighter? Don´t overact so much, he has a good combination of skills, he´s very big, very heavy, pysically strong, very good stamina for such a big man, and he throws a lot of punches, he wouldn´t be a walk in the park, whether for a small ATG like Marciano, or for a big ATG like Lewis...

 

I've mentioned this before, but it hasn't sunk in so I will have another go.

The way animals change due to increased size is part of an interesting field of biology called scaling.

Due to scaling effects a 7 0 version of Lennox (i.e all else equal, same dimensions relative to each other) would be less mobile, slower and have less stamina than the 6 5 version. This is not my opinion, it is a statement of biological fact. Consequence: the 6 5 version most likely beats the 7 0 version.

If thisis the case, why do we have weight divisions to protect the smaller fighters?

As Luigi pointed out earlier, below (approx) 200 lbs, a smaller fighter's superior speed and mobility is not quite enough to handle the deficits in strength, reach and durability. Therefore, a 160 lb fighter cannot beat a 180 lb fighter of equal ability.

Above 200 lbs this rule stops applying so cleanly, because the equal ability proviso stops being meaningful. The 240 lb guy is necesarily slower than the 200 lb guy, there is nothing you can do about it. It is an unavoidable law of nature. Elite 100m sprinters are always less than 15 stone, its a fact of life. Its the same with boxers, they stop being able to move their bodies so well.

The HWs with the greatest combinations of strength and mobility (Johnson, Louis, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson) all have very similar weights, around 200-220 lbs.

This is an absolutely striking observation, and it is a product of inflexible scaling laws. There is just no way that a 300lb guy can move as fluidly as a 200lb guy, assuming it is a scaled up version of the same man, and not two completely different fighters.

 

I dont doubt that the 215 pound Holly is stronger than the 190lb version but is a 215lb Tyson necisarily stronger than the 190lb Holly.

 

I think a 215 pound tyson is srtonger than 190 pound holyfield, you have to remember that 25 pounds of muscle is alot and tyson isn't a body builder he was a prime conditioned athlete who had that amount of muscle for a reason.

 

But historicaly many fighters have taken the oposite aproach when fighting a larger oponents and come in light. Billy Conn for example against Joe Louis.

Now would Conn have been better off bulking up to say 200lbs which would have reduced his speed but given him more strength to handel Louis in the clinches?

If you were preparing Conn for that fight today what would you have him do?

 

It is certainly plausible that you could have a 190lb power lifter who could bench press more than a 215lb power lifter. Perhaps heven a 160lb powerlifter pressing more than the 215lb guy. Strength depends on a lot of things other than muscle mass. I know a skinny little guy of 5' 7'' who benches 300lbs.

Not saying it is so but it is theoreticaly possible that Holyfield was stronger or strong enough to neutralize Tyson in the clinches at 190.

 

The whole point is that holyfiled wasn't going for speed and that he wanted to tie tyson up in clinches, it isn't the same for all boxers but in his case he was putting on muscle to help him clinch with tyson.

 

It is possible but do you honestly think a 190 pound holyfield would be strong enough to do what he was doing to tyson at 212 pounds.