The chin and defensive skills of Joe Louis

Neither had the speed or the reflexes at that point all they had was will.
I don't think you know what context means mate...
No need to make up that stuff about 'multiple trainers and historians' to justify what is clearly an opinion. Bit silly really.

 

We're talking SPECIFICALLY about Joe Frazier mate, we're not talking about the average fighter/athlete. Are you incapable of reading?

 

I said you were making up the age range in which Frazier was in his prime name a trainer or a historian who thought Frazier was still as good post FOTC. I never deviated from talking about Frazier, you're bringing in generalized standards into the discussion when we're talking about the career one man which doesn't make an iota of sense.
You're the dumb one mate you aren't even focused on the premise of our conversation. Comprehension really isn't your strong suit.
If you can't see that then I don't know what more I can do for you. Have a nice life.

 

Even allowing for the non participation of communist countries, the available evidence suggest that there were more boxers globally in the 1930s, than there are today.

Obviously this is a difficult thing to estimate, and it is based on the number of boxing gyms and boxing cards, but it would be more than dangerous to assume that Louis was a big fish in a small pond.

As you say some of them look unimpressive on film, but then some of them look absolutely fantastic on film.

So ten best opponents beaten for each fighter.

You might do OK with the above men, but after that you are going to start to struggle, especially if you can't use the same opponent twice.

 

This thread is the BF24 equivalent of the Hundred Years War

 

It's got a long way to go to claim that title.

 

It would have already gotten the title had Mendoza been the one to make the thread.

 

Don't you give these "terrible boxers" some credit, for being successful in an era populated by men like Schmeling Walcott etic?

Personally I see the era very differently to you.

It didn't produce greats in the same way the 70s and 90s did, but the division was still a meat grinder to rise through.

You just stepped on a bear trap here.

Give me a list of Liston's ten best wins, or Bowe's or Vitally's.

You will exhaust the elite fighters very quickly with these men's resumes.

 

I am confronted with the dilemma of do I respond to Glass City Cobra, if it is two spaced from slipping off the bottom of the page?

 

Janitor, you are tireless and this is a time I feel it is justified. (for whatever little that's worth. lol)

 

Louis's chin was pretty poor when looked at historically. He had good recuperative powers though, and good instincts when hurt that allowed him to turn fights around. But anyone getting hurt and nearly stopped by a SMW can't be said to have a great HW chin on the level of a Tyson or a Foreman, let alone anything approaching a McCall, Tua, Chuvalo etc. If someone like Joshua was nearly stopped by Dmitri Bivol fighting at his natural weight class would you consider them to have a great HW chin? I doubt it. Not when HWs get roasted for being dropped by cruiserweights, and those are huge men by any metric. I don't see why Louis should get a pass here.

On the second point, Louis's defence was also quite porous and he was prone to getting tagged by jabs and short chopping shots that often seemed to catch him off guard and badly stun him or knock him off his feet. His pull counter was decent though, and his offensive skills often acted as his defence since fighters often found it difficult to mount a sustained attack on him unless he was seriously buzzed. Overall his defence was better than his chin, but again not on the level of any really good defensive stylists.

As for how he managed to carve such a career with these attributes, it's down to a combination of things: great offensive skills, recuperative abilities and heart of Louis, subpar opposition a lot of the time, historically smaller or lesser punchers compared to fighters from the 70s/80s onwards, and a boxing environment in which taller opponents were more prone to giving up their advantages to fight on the inside, which greatly benefitted Louis's style.