The chin and defensive skills of Joe Louis

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Jan 23, 2024.


  1. HomicideHank

    HomicideHank I believe in the transmigration of souls Full Member

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    No need to make stuff up (about Frazier)
    It was your point though.
    You claimed that you never deviated from discussing Frazier now you're admitting that you did. Which is it?
    I've already used 'special needs'. Get your own insult.
    The proof is in the Terry Daniels and Ron Stander fights in which Frazier moves considerably slower and is 10 lbs overweight. Here's a little exercise for you watch FOTC and then watch those two fights and see if you notice anything different. Do your homework.
    The onus is in you to prove Frazier wasn't in his prime at 29 because quite a few people agree that 29 falls within the range of a boxer's prime.
    Look how you seamlessly went from talking about Frazier to talking generally. This is what I've been pointing out but you seem oblivious to it. Also, why would the onus be any more or less on me than it would be on you?
    I've never mentioned Frazier's arm.
    Frazier spent two weeks in the hospital after the Ali fight dealing with pretty severe kidney and blood pressure issues. That was what caused his decline.
    When you speak about a fighters prime you're not merely comparing them with other fighters you are comparing them with earlier, better or worse stages of their career so Frazier doing well in other fights is irrelevant to the argument. He wasn't as fast, he was carrying extra weight and he was getting hit a lot more. There are fighters who still have success even though they're less than the used to be.
    He took a lot of punches from two very subpar opponents.
    Ellis, Quarry and Ali were all past their bests too.

    spectacularly without showing any issues with his stamina, reflexes
    You admitted in a previous comment that there was some deterioration. Why are you contradicting yourself again? How many times can you contradict yourself in one thread?

    Here's FOTC and the Foster fight.
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    Now here's the Stander and Daniels fights.
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    Yank Durham talks about Frazier's issues at the post fight interview.

    See if you can tell the difference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
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  2. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree, smaller, pressure fighters have to train harder and want it more than their opponent. When the desire and intensity is not there, they are not the same fighter. A fighter who is big for his era, can gain a few pounds, he doesn't have to be as busy, and can get away with not training as hard or having the same intensity against most opponents. Frazier, from Ellis 1 to Ali 1 was at his best, a well conditioned, intense fighter. After Ali 1 he was not the same. The desire was not the same, a smaller, pressure fighter like Frazier can't gain weight and slack off in his training and still be the same.
     
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  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Do you know how to write paragraphs? This is terrible.

    1) The onus is on you because YOU made the claim idiot.

    2) yes Frazier was in the hospital for two weeks after the Ali fight, and then he had a whole two years since then. This is an imbecilic excuse and I already addressed it.

    3) I was both comparing him to mother fighters as well as himself. The extra weight didn't make him slow, he still had quick hands and decimated Stander, Quarry, could still tag Ali, etc.

    4) Frazier took plenty of punches in the FOTC. He was never a defensive wizard, but had decent defense for a swarmer with his bobbing and weaving. Foreman just had the perfect kryptonite with his heavy jab, shoving, right hands, and uppercuts. Oscar Bonavena exposed these weaknesses in his style several years prior, even knocking him down twice using somewhat similar tactics with shoving and strong right hands. Oscar just wasn't as good as Foreman and that's why he didn't finish the job. The fact Frazier couldn't fight backing up would always be a huge issue against Foreman and this is why they changed tactics in the 2nd fight.

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    5) I said there was some deterioration, I was referring to his eyesight and arm issues (which were problems long before he even started his career). Nowhere did I say his stamina and reflexes were worse (they weren't). How many times are you going to attack strawmans? If you don't understand what I said, you can just ask for clarification. I know you won't because you're a moron.
     
  4. HomicideHank

    HomicideHank I believe in the transmigration of souls Full Member

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    Watch the videos that I was kind enough to embed in the previous comment.
    You made a counterclaim so the onus is also on you to disprove my point you buffoon.
    He was slower than he was in his previous fights that is clear to anyone with a functional pair of eyes.
    You can't hide the fact that you admitted that he was declining clear as day.
    Again I ask: how can he be in decline and still be in his prime?
     
  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Yes I made several counter claims and you did not refute or even respond to several of them.

    You are now in the same bracket as Dinovelvet for posters who need eye appointments missing the same posts over and over failing to keep up with the convo, yet having the nerve to make demands and attempting to dictate the conversation. We are done here until you get back on track little one.
     
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  6. HomicideHank

    HomicideHank I believe in the transmigration of souls Full Member

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    What point didn't I engage with?
    You're Pathetic.
    Again: how can he be deteriorating and still be in his prime?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
  7. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Glass City Cobra vs. HomicideHank is the new Mcvey vs. Mendoza and I’m all for it :lol:
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    What SMW almost stopped Louis? I'm detecting some shocking hyperbole here unless i completely missed a huge event in Joe's career.