The chinny Lennox Lewis myth

Weather or not Lewis was "chinier" than Holmes was never my argument. Its the examples that you're using which I believe to be utter nonsense to make your case. Like Holmes getting stopped only ONCE in his 75 pro fight career by a peaking ATG puncher who made the entire boxing world shlt its pants and when Holmes was 38 and retired for two year.. Or getting decked in only his SEVENTH pro fight. Do you really think these examples are even remotely comparable to Lewis getting KTFO by Rahman and McCall while being a reigning titlist ? Common sense is really all it takes to figure this one out.

 

So when Shannon Briggs sent Lewis flying and had him running away with something that you can barely call a left hook, that told you nothing?

 

For the record I don't think that Lewis had a bad chin at all. It was okay. But suggesting that it was better than Holmes' is just stupid.

 

He wasn't KTFO by McCall any more than Holmes was KTFO by Snipes. Both guys couldn't regain their balance when they stood. If Holmes fell into the referee like he crashed into the corner post, Holmes would've ended up on top of the referee with both of them on the floor and the fight would've been over.

And you act like Lewis was some young man when he lost to Rahman. He was one of the oldest heavyweight champs in boxing history when he lost to Rahman. And he got caught with a murderous shot on the point of the chin.

Out of nearly 150 amateur and pro fights, that one shot by Rahman was only the second time Lewis ever hit the deck ... and THE ONLY TIME (out of the two he was ever down) he didn't get up.

And he was one of the oldest champs when it happened.

And he wasted the guy with one punch in the return.

How the "f*ck" that "proves" Lewis was chinnier than Holmes, who was floored by FOUR GUYS in his pro career and stopped three times by guys in only 22 amateur fights, I don't know.

McCall was no worse than Snipes. The only difference was where the referee was standing when Holmes fell forward getting up and where the ref was standing when Lewis fell forward.

That's it.

If Lewis was floored by Nick Wells twice and Duane Bobick and Kevin Isaac and Shavers and Snipes and three times by Tyson ... and Holmes only was down twice ever ... who'd be saying Lewis had a much better chin like you guys are doing with Holmes? I certainly wouldn't.

Holmes' chin was fine. Lewis' chin was fine. Holmes went down more against lesser guys and was stopped once by an all-timer who he never beat. Lewis went down only two two times against champs in his career and lost both, but won the return bouts against each. No real difference.

 

Briggs has one of the highest KO percentages in boxing history for a heavyweight. That's your example? That he punched Lewis on the chin and Lewis didn't go down, and then Lewis hit him in the chin and knocked him out?

Brilliant example, dude.

 

Actually Holmes chin wasn't "fine". It was okay for champion boxer standards. Holmes moved away constantly. He wasn't hit flush often but when he was he was hurt. He got staggered by a jab from Mercer for crying out loud. Lewis chin was also so so. He stuck his jab out and avoided being hit. Show me a fight where is being teed off on in his career? Which is fine by the way. Everybody doesn't have to stand toe to toe with their opponents but the point being neither Lewis or Holmes had the type of chin where they could get hit flush by world class punchers and walk through. They both would go down. Larry got knocked down by Snipes who wasn't a world class puncher or a big puncher period. So Lewis has a better thin than Holmes and clearly way better than guys like Wladimir Klitschko or glass chin Joe Louis who got hurt every time any person landed a solid punch.

 

1. Holmes was nowhere near as much on Qveer street against snipes as Lewis was in the McCall fight. Holmes got back up, stumbled for one second and finished the round strong. Lewis fell into the referee and looked clueless.
2. No.. I have already acknowledged that Lewis was in the twilight of his career.. But being 35 and a reigning champ losing to a fringe contender isn't the same as being 38 and coming out of retirement to face a consensus ATG fighter - A point that you have systematically ignored.
3. I can care less about amateur results where fights among mostly teenagers take place in 3 round bouts with headgear on. The only thing that matters is what these guys managed to do during the mainstream points of their professional careers. Holmes was stopped ONCE in 75 pro fights by an ATG puncher when he was long past it... Lewis was stopped TWICE in only 43 pro fights to fringe contenders when he was a reigning champion. Its a no brainer...
4. see above.

 

Both were down for the same amount of time. Neither had legs when they stood.

Holmes stood, stumbled and crashed into the corner ... which held him up ... or he'd have been on the floor again ... two knockdowns with one punch.

Lewis, on the other hand, stood up without the aid of a corner post to keep him upright, but fell forward into the ref who stopped it.

Both were fine in a matter of seconds. Lewis looked "clueless" as to why they were stopping it. You couldn't see Holmes' eyes when he stumbled because he was staring at the floor when he crashed into the corner. He wasn't even standing upright when he fell forward. The corner totally kept him up.

Two incredibly similar knockdowns. Both guys in very similar shape when they stood. The difference was one fell into the ref and one fell into a corner.

Anyone calling that Lewis KTFO is purposely misleading. He was as KTFO as Holmes was against Snipes. It's all there on film.

 

Look.. I don't know how to make this any simpler.. Lennox Lewis was STOPPED by TWO fringe contenders while being a reigning world title holder. Larry Holmes was STOPPED only ONCE by an ATG puncher and while coming out of retirement.. You can bring up all the obscure instances you want about this guy or that guy getting momentarily decked here and there or how one of them slipped to the fvcking canvas when they were 19 years old in some amateur tournament and it won't change the above facts..

 

I'm sure it would matter if it wasn't Holmes who was floored three times and stopped three times in just 22 fights as an amateur, whereas Lewis was only stopped once by a body shot in a 100 amateur fights against MUCH BETTER COMP from all over the globe.

But why bring that up?

Yeah, let's talk about Holmes 75 pro fights. How many times did Holmes beat Mike Tyson? How many times did Holmes beat Holyfield? How many times did Holmes beat Vitali Klitschko? How many times did Holmes beat McCall? How many times did Holmes beat Mercer? How many times did Holmes beat Morrison? How many times did Holmes beat Ruddock? How many times did Holmes beat Tucker? How many times did Holmes beat Rahman? How many times did Holmes beat Bruno? How many times did Holmes beat Mason? How many times did Holmes beat Briggs? How many times did Holmes beat Golota? How many times did Holmes beat Tua?

Because Lewis BEAT THEM ALL.

The competition Lewis faced - both as an amateur and a pro - is much much better than Holmes' opponents. Still, Holmes found himself down on many more occasions in both the amateurs and the pros than Lewis ever did.

And, unlike Lewis, Holmes couldn't even beat all the lesser guys he faced.

Holmes was an all-time great. But so was Lewis. And, if you're a "Holmes was better than Lewis" guy, you may not want to dig too deep.

 

Why do you keep insisting they were both "fringe" contenders? Both were highly rated at the time by everyone ... including Ring. BOTH were.

We know they both weren't Mike Tyson. But they were BOTH highly rated by everyone and BOTH were world champs and NEITHER was a "fringe" type contender when they faced Lewis.

Regardless, Holmes had similar trouble with guys who weren't as good as they were and was flattened by lesser guys, too.

Lewis went down fewer times. Holmes went down more against more guys, but was stopped one less time.

When it comes to chins, it's a wash.

 

How many times did Holmes beat Tyson? A better question would be WHEN did Holmes fight Tyson and WHEN did Lewis fight him? Kinda has a different impact on the results. Or is it your belief that humans never age? If that's the case then you must have some rather extravagant plans for the everlasting life you intend to live. How many times did Holmes beat McCall? You realize of course that a 45 year old Holmes looked better against McCall than a prime Lewis did in his first meeting with him, right? The same or similar can be said against Mercer.. You're kicking your own ass with your own argument and don't even see it...

 

Totally agree, great post.
You have to face it however that there are people who seem happy to pick on certain fighters regardless and vice versa.
Example..Lewis has plenty of detractors due to Rahman and McCall even though he avenged BOTH .Also at no point could anyone claim that either of those guys was a better boxer/ fighter than Lennox. For me he has a unique distinction in that he never left a ring with any doubt as to who was the better fighter overall, although his last fight came the closest but he was at the end of a long career by then and still won.
A contrary example is Foreman gets ko'd by Ali and knocked down more than once versus Lyle ,then got put down and lost versus Young, but i've never heard anyone call him Chinny ? !
George seems far more revered than Lennox , for some reason .

 

No... They weren't... At the end of 2000, hasim Rahman was ranked #9 by ring.. Four months later in April 2001 he fought Lewis with no fights in between to boost his rating. Oliver McCall was ranked #6 by ring at the end of 1993. He basically sat idol for almost a whole year before fighting Lewis which inclines me to believe that his rating might even have dropped. These guys had fringe credentials. They were both beaten by lesser opponents had minimum quality wins. McCall beat an old Damiani and a green Seldon and had losses to an old Tucker, Norris, Hunter, Douglas, etc.. Rahman beat an old Sanders and was recently defeated by a 17-2 Maskaev. They were good enough to be lower tier contenders but no higher than fringe. As for Holmes getting decked more often, I'll remind you that some of those knockdowns came against some pretty damn hard hitters. Do you think that getting decked by Earnie fvcking Shavers who is commonly referred to as " the hardest " puncher of all time, then getting back up to win is something that should even bother be mentioned as a negative??

 

I don't sum up Lewis's ENTIRE career on the basis of those defeats. And in fact, I've even credited him as having a pretty good chin. But I don't see any rational argument which would harbor a man who was KO'd TWICE in 45 fights by two fringe contenders while being a world title holder as having a better chin than a guy who was stopped only once in 75 fights by an ATG puncher when coming out of retirement.