The chinny Lennox Lewis myth

Lewis accomplished much DESPITE his less than solid chin

These guys all had a better chin than Lewis:

Foreman
Frazier
Tucker
Hoyfield
Bert Cooper
McCall
James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tyson
Holmes
Ali
Chuvalo
Mercer
Witherspoon
Page
Thomas
Bowe
Vitali Klitchko
Ike Ibeabucci
Tua
Scott LeDoux
Tillis
etc, etc, etc.

I don't care how many each went down or were stopped.

Lewis had the dreaded combo of mediocre chin and slow recuperative powers.

Ironically, Rahmann probably had a worse chin than Lewis, just landed first.

 

Lewis faced eight guys on your list and beat ALL of them. So much for his mediocre chin.

If we're talking about chins, how many times someone went down or was stopped CERTAINLY MATTERS.

Jesus.

What else do you base someone's chin on? How broad their shoulders were?

Did you guys lose your minds or something? I've never been in a thread talking about how good someone's chin was when the number of knockdowns they suffered or the number of KO losses they suffered DIDN'T MATTER.

Lewis fought the best of his era and BEAT ALL OF THEM. He was only down TWICE.

How on earth is that "less than solid?"

What's next? Is someone going to start a thread about the tallest boxers but NOT BASE IT ON HEIGHT?

This argument against Lewis has gotten ridiculous.

The two knockdowns Lewis suffered as a pro apparently mean MEAN EVERYTHING to you when judging "his" chin. Everyone else's knockdowns or knockout losses DON'T matter in judging theirs?

Brilliant.

 

A one-punch KO loss is never worse than a one-sided beatdown ko loss. It doesn't prove the guy was better than you. He just landed one perfect shot.

All it proves is that in Lennox Lewis' career, IF YOU DIDN'T score a one-punch KO against him, you didn't win.

The only two guys to score a win over him did score a one-punch win. When they didn't land that one punch in the rematch, they lost.

Because he was better than they were.

And he was better than every man he fought, because he scored wins over all of them.

 

You could not be more wrong.

Being koed by single blows is a rarity among ATG hwts. It's considered a black mark. Nothing positive about that type of loss whatsoever.

In contrast the ability to take punishment and not quit is a sign of all time greatness. Of course it's best to win battles that are nip and tuck or when losing and then come from behind to win. As an example Louis loss to Schmeling proved he "could take it" as he took one after another pile driving rights from then one of boxing all time hitters.

Had Louis been koed twice as Lewis was by single blows say by Schmeling in 36 and top contender Buddy Baer in 41 he would probably not be top two all time hwt champion today.

 

I really don't think Holmes stood up to a better group of elite hitters Goo. One would struggle to find someone that has fought a more daunting array of elite hitters than Lewis, the list just goes on and on and on. The other thing is Lewis faced a much better overall group of fighters than Holmes.

Holmes was actually considered a bit suspect durability wise for the longest time after winning the title due to getting hurt quite solidly by the likes of Weaver and Snipes.

Granted Holmes didn't get stopped by one punch but surprisingly i agree with DC that the kd's from Snipes and McCall are very very similar. A bit of experience had Holmes walking it off after falling into the turnbuckle. I would have liked to see Lewis allowed to fight on. Who is to say this thread would even exist if he was? Holmes came back from just as bad.

Holmes really did recover fast when hurt but the big question is if he fought a higher level of opposition like Ali, Lewis, Holyfield etc could he have survived such rocky moments. They would be infinitely more difficult to get out of trouble against.

You can argue solidly both ways and it is definitely an open book.

Holmes was really good at seeing punched coming, even in his comeback. This helps the brain prepare for them. Lewis didn't see the McCall punch but to give credit where it's due he did pop up fast and badly wanted to fight on. Pretty sure Holmes never spotted the Snipes punch and these are the punches that really get you.

I would call the Lewis chin "good". I would put Holmes a level above but you can definitely wonder how Larry would fare against the likes of Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, Louis, Frazier etc if he got in heavy trouble.

 

Lewis got lucky escape against Mercer and 2nd fight against Holyfield , he was behind against Bruno and Klitchko but never had a rematch with them. He only went for a rematch when result didnt go his way like Holyfield 1 , Mccall & Rachman . He never hurt Mccall during their 2 fights, Mccall easily dispatched him in first bout and Lewis coudlnt even hurt him in rematch when Mccall refused to fight back and putting his guard down.

Again, his chin isnt that bad ,but far from the best, especially if you consider his size. Not on same level as Foreman, Holyfield , Ali and Holmes.

Lewis was also wobbled by someone like Shannon Briggs and needs to held on. But off course Shannon was never a very good finisher.

 

Truth is, for a dominant world champion, Lewis proved to be more susceptible to being knocked out within his prime (as champion) than any of the best world champions.

If he had a "weak jaw" or not, that is the hard facts. As champions Joe Louis, Marciano, Ali, Johnson, Holmes and Dempsey all proved not to be so susceptible to a shock knockout mid reign.

Personally I think Lewis took shots pretty well when he was paying attention, but that does not detract from the fact that he got caught out twice. The point is he revenges those defeats and proved to be a very strong champion in spite of this.

 

What happened was Manny Stewart who was yet to work with Lewis, spotted a flaw in the way Lennox telegraphed a desperate type of overhand right that he used to use. manny studied the sequence of mannerisms Lewis had that predicted the moment he would throw it so he had McCall practice a short close right counter and tutored him on this over and over on it.

At the time Lennox unsportingly said it was a lucky shot, that McCall even had his eyes closed when he threw it, but McCall only had to be in the right position and trigger his punch at the same moment Lewis threw his own wider right hand. Lewis practically knocked himself out.

At some point Lewis must have recognised this and he employed Manny from then on who then stopped lennox from throwing that type of long overhand right by squaring his stance a little.

 

The ability to not take punishment is a sign of all time greatness.

 

How was Lewis lucky in the second Holyfield fight?

 

Absolutely spot on.
This debate has now become nonsensical. There seems a different set of rules here for Lennox as compared to other fighters.
Frazier hit the deck more times in his career so did Foreman, but never heard them called Chinny. Lennox got caught twice in a long long career, so what ?
The McCall one was just one of those things, Rahmann was Complacency .He put both right in convincing style. I think his career in terms of quality and depth matches just about anyone in history.Something about him attracts crticism though. It was the same when he was actually around. I just dont think he mesmerised people like an Ali or had them in awe like a Foreman or a Tyson.
Maybe because he was/ is a nice guy and maybe his persona just didnt do it for some people ?

 

I seldom if ever need to play this card but rest 110% assured if he was American he would be much much more revered.

 

That ALSO. Slick fighters that are hard to hit are a dime a dozen. An ATG of the bunch is slick but also proves he is tough. This is one reason why Ali was not considered by most to be an ATG until the 70's.

 

I never thought about that, its a possibility.A counter point is that in England he wasnt held up on a pedestal either, probaly due to that Canadian accent !

 

This is true.Lennox tells this exactly in his book.