The critical question - if Wlad and Vitali were prime in the current finishing era.

It depends on how the fights were referred.

Wlad had a lot going for him in Germany. This was his adopted country. He reportedly made people sign absurd contracts where if they beat him, they would have to face his brother.

The rings in Germany were reportedly quite slippery so mover types would struggle vs Wlad. Again, i am just going by what a lot of commentators have said on youtube.

What i will say without any question is that the German referees allowed their hometown boy Wlad to get away with things that would have disqualified heavyweights in any other era. Wlad was allowed to lean and clinch smaller heavyweights with impunity.

Some Wlad aploogists claim Ali did the same. Well, that isn't true. None of these people can show me a single fight that Ali had that is comparable to Wlad-Povetkin clinchfest. Not to mention Ali was 6'3 and was often fighting guys of similar height (Bugner 6'4. Norton 6'3, Shavers an inch or so shorter etc.) Wlad had the advantage of being 6'6 and nearly 250 lbs, making his clinch game a lot more effective.

Wlad had 3 stoppage losses and then went through a period of a decade without any losses. Is it because he got dramatically better or is it because the German ref's allowed him to drain the energy of his smaller foes by allowing endless amount of leaning and clinching? Not to mention that holding and clinching protected his fragile chin.

Usyk is a fighter with greater self belief than Wlad. Unlike Wlad, he goes into the home countries of his rivals and beats them despite everything being rigged against him. He doesn't fight dirty.

Usyk would not be able to beat peak Wlad in Germany but then again who would? It wasn't fair what the refs allowed him to get away with.

With fair refs? Wilder would have a 20% chance of knocking out Wlad. Vitali would maul Wilder, however.

Fury could potentially win a close decision of Vitali due to his movement and feinting. Vitali wasn't a massive puncher and might struggle with Fury's awkward herky jerky movement and fenting and stance switching. I am talking about young 246 lb Fury who could move consistently.

Wlad likely has too much offensive firepower for Fury at his peak and Fury probably doesn't have the offense to stop Wlad so i would heavily favout Wlad here.

Joshua would have a 30-40% punchers chance of beating Wlad at his peak IMO. Joshua took clean hits of Wlad (who hadn't lost any power, reflexes sure but not power) and still won. I think Wlad is more athletic and would be favoured but it isn't a done deal.

Joshua would struggle vs the more durable Vitali. I think Vitali wears him out and wins a decision or stops him late. Joshua doesn't have the herky jerky awkward skills of Fury to confuse Vitali. Vitali will simply land too many punches and wear him out.

Usyk is likely too skilled for Vitali and i doubt Vitali has the power to stop Usyk so Usyk wins a decision.

Wlad has the firepower to stop Usyk but the second he gets nailed with the hard southpaw left, he would likely go into a shell, allowing Usyk to outbox the bigger man. With fair referee, i favour Usyk 55/45. But yes, Wlad has the firepower to stop him

Overall:

Wlad TKO 7 Wilder with Wilder having a 20% punchers chance to win.
Vitali TKO 10 Wilder

Wlad tko 10 Joshua with Joshua having a 30-40% punchers chance
Vitali TKO 11 Joshua

Fury close UD 12 Vitali
Wlad tko 11 Fury

Usyk close UD Vitali
Usyk close UD Wlad

 

I don't think the brothers were as brilliant as made out to be. They were excellent, sure, but Vitali does not have a deep resume and Wlad was allowed to get away with unbelievable cheating for over a decade which protected his chin.

 

If they were peak rt now they would unfortunately be champions. I say unfortunately because I'm not a fan.

 

I dunno there's alot of dangerous punchers now for Wladimir he struggled against Samuel Peter I could imagine him having issues vs the likes of Bakole, Kabayel. And then there's Zhang who's really dangerous in the first 6 rounds and we all know another big punching southpaw in Sanders sent Wladimir to the shadow realm.

I think Fury is always a troubling style for Wladimir to overcome personally but its definitely winnable for Wladimir. Funnily enough I think Wladimir matches up quite well vs Usyk remember he did deal with another skillful southpaw in Byrd quite comfortably. I also think a prime Wladimir does beat Joshua and Wilder.

As for Vitali unlike Wladimir I don't think he matches up well vs Usyk especially judging how much he struggled vs Byrd who had a weeks notice. I also think he struggles vs Fury aswell based on styles. The rest of the field I think Vitali is more than capable of beating because he has the size and more importantly the chin.

 

The missing link fight is basically Fury against Haye. It got cancelled multiple times because Haye kept getting hurt in training. I think Haye was expected to win, but in hindsight, probably would’ve lost. There’s also footage of Haye beating up Wilder in sparring.

I think Joshua and Wilder might’ve been relegated to levels of success that more closely resembled David Haye’s heavyweight career if they had to coexist with the Klitschko’s. Or Joshua could do a second tier UK based career like Povetkin when he kept fighting in Russia.

Usyk and Fury are pretty clearly bigger talents than Povetkin and Haye. Usyk would have a good shot at beating or splitting with a peak Vitali and Fury could give the Klitschko’s enough trouble to have super fights with both, although I think he’d lose competitively to both if everyone were at their best. I’m not sure if Fury’s focus would hold if he got two or three eight figure paydays against the K bros though. He might burn out a lot earlier.

From the K bros era, I’d say Solis, Ibragimov, Haye, and Povetkin had their potential dampened by being worse than the K bros and might have a higher places in history if they were fighting Wilder and Joshua instead. Solis, Ibragimov, and Haye were affected by injuries though so they might get cut short in any era.

 

They'd both be title holders and probably for awhile

 

My opinion has always been, yes. Consider:

-The Klits never allowed a blown-up CW like Usyk to run rampant thru the HW division. they put the breaks on every CW champ's rise to the top.
-The notion of some1 like Ngannou turning pro & giving any top HW a pick em fight would've been unthinkable in the Klit era.
-Sam Peter was ridiculed for his lack of skill during the Klit era, but looks like a defensive wiz in comparison to a Neanderthal like Wilder.
-Fighters like Joe Parker & Andy Ruiz are indistinguishable from opponents that the Klits routinely disposed of in their era, yet are beating or splitting fights w/ the likes of Wilder & Joshua.
-Chisora was just another day @the office for even an ancient Vitali, yet Derek is still hanging around fighting tooth & nail w/ top HWs to this day.

 

Agreed on all points, though tbf Usyk is better than any of the ex CWs either Klitschko fought.

With long reigning, utterly dominant champions, the question is are they exceptional or was their era weak.

I tend to think it's more likely that the one best fighter of an era is better than the best fighter of most other eras, than ALL the contenders, in this case over around a decade, are weaker than ALL the contenders, of most other eras.

 

I think the bell curve approach makes the most sense. For every Wlad, Fury, Vitali, or Usyk, there is very large number of contenders who aren’t better or worse than each other (I.e. Thompson and Brock can be assumed to be at a similar level to Whyte and Takam).

 

Agreed.

Granted, there are other HWs in history who beat another one or two (in Ali's case 3) truly great HWs, whereas Wlad did not, but I don't see the general standard of contenders in his era being substantially weaker than most other eras, relative to the evolution of those eras.

 

If Ali did it over the last fifteen years, Boxing24 would’ve had a field day with Liston never showing up, Frazier being past prime, and Foreman bring a “novice” like Peter and Wilder supposedly were.

 

Not sure about Vitali, I'll have to think about it.

I think it's clear as day, Wlad would beat a prime Joshua. That much is obvious when looking at their actual fight. I'll go one further and say if Wlad didn't take Vitali's advice to box Joshua when hurt, he gets the stoppage.

Wlad PROBABLY beats Wilder, but if that right hand lands on Wlad's suspect chin..........

I don't think any version of Wlad beats Fury tbh.

 

This is a fantastic post! I agree with everything except I think Uysk would stop Vlad but not Vitali. Uysk's constant feighting, angles and movement would tire Vlad out by the later rounds kind of like he did against Joshua who would have been stopped in the first fight had there been ten more seconds.

Vlad was the type of fighter that was effective when HE controlled the pace and he wouldn't be able to do that with Uysk.