The curious career of Bernard Hopkins

It's an interesting hypothesis but it stretches the imagination a little to think a fighter would so drastically drain himself and be able to perform for so long safely without damaging his health.

Any other fighter who drains himself down is usually left weakened. Look what happened to De La Hoya when he drained himself just one division below back down to welter he was a walking zombie when he fought Pac. Look at Canelo and how he struggles to throw at a decent work rate and compare that to Hopkins at middleweight in his prime when he was very aggressive and physical and was able to throw punches in high volume like his fight with Johnson where in several rounds he threw well in excess of a hundred punches.

How do you explain his low fight night weight, rarely going above the mid 160's, I don't think he ever weight above 169lbs in the ring during his middleweight reign.

Also when he did fight at light heavy he required the help of Mackie Shilstone to add muscle to his frame. If he was a natural light heavy he wouldn't have needed to bulk up, he simply would have lessened his training volume and his weight would have naturally increased.

How do you explain is low weight at light heavy as well. He weight 179lbs in the ring with Kovalev, only 4lbs above the light heavy limit.

There is simply too much evidence against him being a natural light heavy who drained down, no other fighter has ever done what he has done and not hydrated up massively or suffered physically.

If your hypothesis is correct then Hopkins was drained and weakened at middleweight during his entire career, if that's the case we never saw the best of Hopkins as he was always drained and weakened prior to moving up and I don't believe that to be the case. He showed none of the usual problems when draining to make weight.

At the worst he may have been a smallish super middle who drained down. But he was never a big super middle or natural light heavy. Even now at age 50 he could still make super middle based upon his in ring weight against Kovalev. Why would he come in so light against Kovalev if he was a natural light heavy?

 

Brother i respect your thread! but i have to tell you something, its impossible to trick your body in boxing! if you have box before you will know it! its impossible! you get sick, and you loose power, speed, endurance...you loose everything!

hopkins its a real MW! have you thought that his team put him on the wrong division when he started his carrea? do you think a a 39 years old man can make 156 for a fight if he its not a regular MW???

 

He was/still is one of the most disciplined fighters. I remember in his middleweight days he'd brag about his 28inch waist. For a guy his size and frame, that's impressive. Most welterweights aren't even that slim. Could be a combination of freak genetics and dog determination. Being in Rj's shadow for yrs and yrs fueled him on. He was just a smart man that did the most with what he had, with great results! Great middleweight, very good light heavyweight.

 

'Natural weight' is just more boxing nonsense. It doesn't exist and it doesn't mean anything.

 

Stellar post my friend Loudon.

 

I also think prime Hopkins avoided Roy... 60-40 to get his ass kicked was fair at that time. In hindsight Hopkins made the right decision.

 

You've focused far too much on that first fight. If you were to approach this subject scientifically it would be seen as an anomaly not the trend or norm. What do many prisoners do when in prison? They lift and of course gain weight and muscle mass.

Hopkins did not start fighting as a middleweight in his 4th year as a pro, he fought at middleweight in his 6th fight. Sure there were plenty of times when he fought 1-3lbs above middleweight but that common practice, why make weight when no title is on the line. Look at Calzaghe's early fights, 13 of is first 22 fights were above super middleweight, are you claiming Calzaghe was a natural light heavy or even a cruiserweight, Calzaghe did once fight a cruiserweight.

You seem to show a lack of knowledge regarding how a fighter could make weight. Either Hopkins dehydrates himself to make a lower weight which would result in him hydrating back up large amounts of weight which clearly isn't what happened with Hopkins.

The other option is Hopkins reduces weight my catabolising muscle mass, making him weaker and less effective as a fighter. There is no magical way of reducing muscle mass without seriously effecting certain aspects of athletic performance.

As someone else mentioned Hopkins had a 28 inch waist, that's not the physique of a natural light heavyweight. I'm 5'5" and have a 30-31 inch waist. Even when I ran 40-50 miles per week and was super thin at 118lbs I only ever had a 29 inch waist with a clear six pack.

Once again you are showing a lack of knowledge is regards to training and the human body. If he was a natural light heavy he wouldn't have needed Shilstone to go up in weight and not gain body fat.

The human body has a natural weight zone it adheres to, if Hopkins was a natural light heavy he simply would have just had to stop running as much and eating more, as a natural light heavy it would have been muscle mass that he gained not fat, if it was predominantly fat then he would have not been a natural light heavy but a middleweight who simply got fat.

Discipline even on Hopkins level cannot defy the laws of physics or the laws that govern how the human body works. Either he was weakened at the weight or not you can't have it both ways. Hopkins somehow catabolised his own muscle mass to make weight yet wasn't weakened by this? He didn't even do this only when he fought but all year round according to you.

You say all evidence points to him being not a natural middleiweight, well that statement simply isn't true. You have 2 pieces of supposed evidence, one he fought at a high weight in his first fight, 2 he's incredibly disciplined. That's not really evidence though it's 2 facts that you have used to create a hypothesis but it doesn't point to him being a natural super middle or light heavy alone. Other fighters have fought above their natural weight class in early fights, other fighters have been incredibly disciplined, though perhaps not as much as
Hopkins.

We have no idea how Hopkins looked in his first fight, he may have been heavily muscled or he may have been carrying a spare tire around his waist. You don't know what shape he was in, but Hopkins himself said he basically didn't train much for that first fight.

There is plenty of evidence that contradicts your hypothesis. His fight weights is one of those. He only weight 4lbs above the light heavy limit against Kovalev, is there any reason why he would drain himself and either not hydrate properly or come in smaller and weaker against Kovelev, I can't think of any. Hopkins as a middleweight rarely came in more than a few lbs heavier, he was out weight by Tito when they fought and the heaviest I have known him to step in the ring as a middleweight was against Taylor when he was 169lbs, the same weight Golovkin now fights at in the ring, are you saying Golovkin is not a middleweight?

There is plenty of evidence to suggest he was a natural middleweight, more so than to suggest he was not, his low in ring weight as a middleweight, his low weights as a light heavy, the ease with which is dropped back down for catch weight fights with Wright and Pavlik, the fact he needed a specialist in Shilstone to add muscle mass and not just naturally move up in weight like a normal fighter would that had been draining down in weight, his 28 inch waist, the fact that as a light heavyweight he only twice actually weight in at 175lbs, he was usually a 1-5 lbs lower suggest he was not a light heavyweight.

You have focused on to aspects of Hopkins, that first fight and his dicsipline and used that to create a hypothesis that he was not a natural middleweight. That's not a very scientific approach, all evidence has to be used and you can't just magic that away by saying Hopkins was just super disciplined because as I've said before it, no matter of self discipline can defy what the human body is capable off.

 

I agree with Loudon. Hopkins is a natural light heavyweight who managed to get down to middleweight and dominate smaller fighters. If he had ***** then he should have been in the mix at light heavyweight or at least super middleweight his whole career. His moving up to the weight he should have been fighting at the whole time did not impress me, especially since he still enjoyed reach and height advantages in that division.

His frame is bigger than Roy Jones or James Toney's but they fought at heavyweight and deserve far more credit than he does. He didn't take any chances until he was about 40. I'll give him props for his light heavyweight career, but there are a lot of light heavyweights with better careers. His fame rests on him being perceived as one of the all time greatest middleweights, and even then it's not for the great middleweights he beat, but for the success he had moving up to light heavyweight, plus his longevity probably due to PEDs.

I put him in a special category with Hearns, Spinks, Foster, Arguello, and Saddler as the great weight cutters. Ironically, they were all known, with the exception of Foster, for their great ability to weight climb too. But that's not true weight climbing like Duran or Walker did it.

 

Basically, this.

 

Hopkins is tall but he doesn't have such a big frame to suggest he is naturally a light heavyweight. There are plenty of tall middleweights like Liles, Holmes, Taylor, Pavlik, Hearns and nobody says they are natural light heavies.

Lets compare Hopkins to 2 other 6'1 middleweights in Hearns and Barkley when they fought.

Hopkins when he fought Pascal

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2011-05-19-bernard-hopkins-jean-pascal-rematch_N.htm

Height 6'1"
Reach 75"
Chest normal 39"
Chest expanded 42"
Biceps 13"
Forearms 11"
Waist 31"
Thigh 21"
Calf 14"
Neck 16"
Wrist 6"
Fist 12"

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-06-06/sports/sp-2949_1_thomas-hearns

Hearns

Height 6'1"
Reach 78"
Chest normal 40"
Chest expanded 42"
Biceps 15.5"
Forearms 12"
Waist 30"
Thigh 20"
Calf 13"
Neck 15.5"
Wrist 8"
Fist 11.5"

Barkley

Height 6'1"
Reach 74"
Chest normal 38"
Chest expanded 40"
Biceps 15."
Forearms 12"
Waist 31"
Thigh 22"
Calf 15"
Neck 15.5"
Wrist 7"
Fist 13"

As you can see Hopkins is comparable to these to middleweights, hell Hearns is regarded as a natural welter or light middle who simply had the frame to accommodate him going up in weight easily, but he isn't a natural light heavy.

If these examples are not good enough how about Taylor and Pavlik when they fought. It's clear Hopkins is no bigger, maybe even naturally smaller than all these middleweights, why just highlight Hopkins as being a guy to drained weight when seemingly similar sized fighters like Taylor, Pavlik, Hearns and Barkley were of a similar size, if not bigger.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2007-09-27-Taylor-Pavlik_N.htm

Jermain Taylor Name Kelly Pavlik
Aug. 11, 1978 Birth date April 5, 1982

Little Rock Birthplace Youngstown, Ohio

Little Rock Residence Youngstown

29 Age 25

160* Weight 160*

6-1 Height 6-2

78" Reach 75"

17" Neck 16"

44" Chest (normal) 40"

46" Chest (expanded) 42 1/2"

16.5" Biceps 15"

14" Forearms 12"

7" Wrist 7"

13" Fist 14"

31" Waist 32"

18" Thigh 19"

12" Calf 13.5"

You can stick your head in the sand, ignore other facts, other comparisons but there is very little if anything to suggest Hopkins was a light heavyweight, maybe a big middleweight and later on a natural super middle, but I just can't see any logical argument for him being seen as a light heavy who drained himself, too much evidence suggests otherwise.

 

Interesting guy Hopkins is physically , when viewed through North American eyes. In Africa he would be average weight , most Africans are noticeably slimmer than the average white guy from the USA . Due to genetics and the blessings of a natural diet . For example most Maasai men in Africa are tall 6ft and up but weigh in the 140-150 lb range , when eating their natural diet , which is very nutritious and they are considered to be healthy.

I believe his natural fighting weight in his prime was 168 -ish give or take 5 lbs. His discipline in his daily life for decades has paid off in terms of being a serious contender for 10 - 12 years longer than average .... unfortunately it is not good for his brain.

A unique individual for sure.