The current Heavyweight division is a collective masterpiece of failure.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Dec 6, 2023.


  1. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Alright, let's make things clear, the Heavyweight division was never the best division in Boxing. Ever. Not now, not at the turn of the 20th century, and not anytime in-between. Even at it's best, there was always a division out there at the time that was just plain better. Practically every single one of the original 8 divisions is historically deeper than it, except maybe Flyweight. The Heavyweights may have been the marquee division, but they were never the best fighters around. That said, good God, the current Heavyweight landscape is a garbage dump riddled with fleas and maggots that reeks of poverty and animal abuse.

    Joe Joyce : A big, dumb, strong, crude giant that relies on his size, strength, work-rate, chin and nothing else. He couldn't spell defence, speed and skill if you gave him the letters and told him the order to put them on. Successfully making this man a genuinely skilled fighter regardless of size would be like teaching an amoeba how to comprehend fire. His whole career basically amounts to beating the mediocre Dubois and Parker. Zhang has most likely shattered that chin for good, and him being 38 years old doesn't ignite a light at the end of the tunnel.

    Luis Ortiz : Bryant Jennings, Tony Tompson and Malik Scott. What do all these guys have in common ? Their last opponent in their careers was Luis Ortiz, they had to retire after him because they were all way beyond past it. So Ortiz better have some solid names to compensate, right ? Right ? No. All he has left are Christian Hammer, Travis Kauffman, Alexander Flores and Charles Martin. He is also in his mid 40's, if anything, he might be older. Might as well be retired by this point. It's a shame, because he actually looked like a decently skilled guy with some layers to his game.

    Andy Ruiz Jr : His whole legacy is built on his win over Joshua, which seems to have been a lightning in a bottle case. His only other worthy wins are a disputed loss to Parker, and a controversial win against a 43 year old Luis Ortiz, who has practically retired after the bout, which was a year ago. He has also only had 3 fights in the last 4 years. Him being 34 is detrimental to his legacy and future.

    Joseph Parker : He has built his career on beating guys like Takam, Chisora and other Euro level guys, as well as unconvincingly beating Ruiz. He looked like a good talent, but now he seems content being mediocre. He has always lost to the best he has fought, like Joshua, Joyce and Whyte.

    Dillian Whyte : A shot Povetkin knocked him out cold, and the only reason Whyte got his revenge was due to Povetkin recovering from Covid and being beyond shot. His only other worthy wins are the glorified journeyman Chisora, the gatekeeper Helenius, and Parker.

    Filip Hgorvic : The only good fighter he has beaten is Zhilei Zhang, and most agree that he didn't deserve the nod there. Maybe he'll prove himself in the future, but being 31 and this unproven is not a good sign in the slightest.

    Zhile Zhang : Promising fighter. He's KO'd Joe Joyce twice and arguably beat Hgorvic. Too bad he is 40 years old and likely to retire the moment he gets a big payday.

    Frank Sanchez : Up and coming fighter that looks promising, but hasn't beaten literally anyone worth of note at all. Him being 31, again, sucks.

    Arslanben Makhmudov : His best wins are Takam, Teper and a 40 year old Samuel Peters in his last fight. Unproven as all hell and 34 years old, absolutely tragic.

    Otto Wallin : His entire reputation stems from his fight with Fury, aside from that he has only beat the unremarkable Breazeale and a declining Cruiserweight in Gassiev. Let's see what happens with Joshua.

    Anthony Joshua : He used to have the best resume in the division, having beaten old Wlad, Whyte, Ruiz, Takam, Parker, old Povetkin, and Pulev. Not the greatest resume ever, but very respectable, but after his losses to Usyk, he seems to have lost his edge and seems incredibly gunshy and fireless against weaker opposition like Franklin and a 39 year old Helenius. The signs that he started being fearful of his own mortality were there after Klitshcko and Ruiz, but nowhere near this extreme. Let's see how he does against Wallin.

    Deontay Wilder : His first ''noteworthy ''opponent was Liakhovich, a former WBO strap holder who lost the belt immediately, and was coming off of 2 losses to Helenius and Jennings, hardly elite guys. He was coming off of 1.5 years of inactivity and hadn't won for 3 years when meeting Wilder. He then ''beat'' Malik Scott, who took a dive in a performance that a primary schooler could have sold better. He then got a solid win against Stiverne, taking the WBC title, prior to having the worst 5 year long reign in Heavyweight history. First was Molina, who was stopped in the 1st round by Arreola, and whose best win at the time was a 45 year old horse trial. Then it was Dahaupas, who had lost to the Euro level Teper, but still got a title shot. Then it was Szpilka, who had recently lost to Jennings, and only had a win over Adamek. Then it was Arreola, who had been reduced to a trial horse that relied on name value, barely scraping by an up and coming prospect in Kauffman and being 2-4 in his last 6 fights. Then it was an unproven prospect, I repeat, prospect in Gerald Washington, who would go 2-5 after his fight with Wilder. He then rematched Stiverne, who had went the full 10 rounds with a journeyman, and hadn't been in a ring for 2 years. Luis Ortiz was next, who while a decent fighter, hasn't actually proven himself as a world class Heavyweight, resume wise. He was then gifted a draw against a Tyson Fury that had 2 fights after losing 150+ lbs to get himself back in shape. Breazeale was next, and he hasn't beaten anybody world class, and then it was Ortiz again. He then lost to Tyson Fury twice, getting absolutely destroyed and stopped twice. And the only thing he has left is a win over a past it Helenius over a year ago, not having fought since. The great American Heavyweight, people.

    Tyson Fury : Seemed to be a breath of fresh air when he beat Klitscko 7 years ago, and finally ended the Klitschko era. Then he spent the next 2 years getting fat, drunk, high and God knows what else. Things seemed promising however when he made a comeback after losing 200 lbs and being in the wrong side of a draw against Wilder. His absolute demolition of Wilder later on made it seem like the return of the true king. So what did the king do ? He decided to get drunk of his own glory, fighting Dillian Whyte and the corpse of Chisora, a man he had already beaten twice before, rather than fight his top adversary in Usyk. After going on retirement half a dozen times, and the possibility of the fight maybe happening coming about, he decided to screw us over from behind, fighting an 0-0-0 MMA fighter, getting dropped, looking terrible, and tarnishing whatever prestige the division had left in the process. At this point he is either going to retire for good outright, or have one last fight with Usyk, and then call it quits.

    At this point, the only good thing in this division is Usyk. He's cemented himself as the greatest CW of all time, beat Anthony Joshua twice, thus having the 2 best wins at the poundage, and is actively challenging Fury for a match for undisputed. His only slight fault is that he is inactive, but due to circumstances like Covid and the Ukraine war transpiring, I'm willing to cut him some slack on that department.

    This division seems to have a very bright future ahead, folks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2023
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  2. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    Who hurt you?
     
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  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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  4. Bigcheese

    Bigcheese Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I only really care about exciting fights being made. Its not the best division in terms of talent or future hof'ers, but you could match most of these guys against each other and I'd happily watch. I'd also add Bakole, Anderson and Ajagba to your list.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2023
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  5. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That would be a thread in itself, although a way more boring one.
     
  6. Haviton

    Haviton Member banned Full Member

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    • Hrgovic fought to the teeth with Zhang, making him useless, endured 20 punches that KO-ed Joe Joyce, managed to turn situation and completley outbox Zhang in latter half, making him run in 12th round. If a man turns his back to an opponent and stats running from him, he lost that fight, dont be chinese apologist.
    • Joyce instead wallowing in fear of facing contenders like Joshua and Wilder and Fury, who fought bumps that should be respected - Helenius, Whyte and Chisora and that other guy Joshua fought - are not on level of Dempsey McKean who Hrgovic beat after 12th rounds. That is saying something about who you should spit on.
    • Zhang exposed number 3 with KO, twice, he isnt promising fighter, he is a champ and somebody will have to say othervise and that can be:
      • Usyk/Fury winner if they dont retire, or if they survive Hrgovic
      • Anderson/Sanchez (ranked 1 and 2 WBO) if Zhang is elevated to full champ he must fight one of those (if unified relinqueses belts)
      • Hrgovic in a rematch for unification of IBF/WBO belt
     
  7. VOXDEI

    VOXDEI Active Member Full Member

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    Words, words, words...

    You really expect me to read all that?
     
  8. Carinito

    Carinito Member Full Member

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    Usyk could be the conqueror you seek.
     
  9. ad4m88

    ad4m88 Active Member Full Member

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    Honestly I don't even think this heavyweight era is any good just that there's been a well marketed black American a English Olympian champ and a great talking gypsy who took years to become popular was fighting on ch5 at one point

    No better than the Klitschko era honestly
     
  10. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The division stinks but it’s largely now due to Fury’s disgraceful performance against Ngannou and trilogy with Chisora. If he had fought Usyk after Whyte the division would be in a much better place.

    The December 23rd card is the breath of fresh air needed for the division.
     
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  11. The Cryptkeeper

    The Cryptkeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The years between Ali beating Liston and Holmes beating Ali, heavyweight boxing was the best division in boxing. It’s almost inarguably the greatest era in boxing, full stop.

    The problem is that every subsequent era is judged against this and they all look garbage by comparison.
     
  12. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's just it, though. December 23 is most likely going to be excellent, but what else is there for the division afterwards ? Fury, Usyk, Wilder, Zhang and Joyce could all retire at a moment's notice. Sanchez and Makhmudov are promising, but given their age and the rate they're climbing up the ranks, they aren't going to to do much by the time they're done. Joshua and Ruiz are glass cannons that could either retire any minute now, or overstay their welcome. All that's left is Hrgovic, Wallin, Parker and Anderson. Fury is a problem, but he is far from the only factor for the division's state.
     
  13. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Usyk and Fury are generational greats

    Wilder is the hardest hitter of all time

    Take off the rose tints
     
  14. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Fury nearly lost to an 0-0 fighter, Wilder is not the hardest hitter ever (Earnier Shavers keeps that title).

    Take off the rose tints.
     
  15. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    When Wilder death touches Parker with a half cocked jab then it's undeniable