The current Heavyweight Division is one of the best eras ever

When Dempsey was Champion and considered the strongest man on the planet . . .but was busy making movies in Hollywood - the heavyweight divison was at its lowest. Then the famous long count and the myth of Dempsey was created. Few saw the fight - but the loser was the winner. Dempsey was totally outboxed, but 14 seconds saved the era. Strange things happens - the Klitschko Brothers´ have dominated the division. The opposition has been a huge disappointment - Chisora made a decent effort - but all the other defences are forgotten or be best forgotten like Haye´s pathetic underachievement.
Even Joe Louis defended against a bunch of no-hopers - Marciano´s defences against old veterans ...I think any era in history can be critisized for its low points.

 

Troll :rofl

 

:good

 

No but that would at least the best counterargument I've seen. I've actually wondered about that, good job finding the biggest potential weakness to the argument. I asked the boxing trainers I've been with and they gave me the impression there are about half as many US boxers today as 30 years ago. Certainly not enough to compensate for increased participation elsewhere.

Like I said, it would be a good argument, and if you can site it, please do, I would want to see it. However, a great athlete is, often as not, going to find his her way to the best sport for them. There are more people today, more exceptional athletes, and greater likelihood those exceptional athletes will find there way to boxing, even if raw numbers of participants are down. That said, you would at least have a rationally defensible counterargument.

 

Exactly, good points. Like Wlad, Dempsey also lost to otherwise unimpressive people before his championship run :good

 

Getting knocked down happens all the time, and one time against a bigger fighter doesn't mean it was a problem. As far as skills go....I find your statement a bit naive since Carnera had almost the same exact style as Vits.

 

Considering the Ring ranking don't go through Dempsey's entire reign its pretty difficult to rate his era. I'm of the opinion his title reign is very overrated, but that doesn't give us the entire scoop on his era.

 

Come on Jab, I know you don't honestly believe Carnera was comparable in talent or effective style to Vitali. He was the Valuev of his era, but Valuev could box better. The fact that Valuev was 6-8 inches taller, 50 pounds heavier, tells you all you need to know about how much the era has improved.

 

It would be nice and refreshing to see an up and comer openly challenge the champ, make a name for himself the old fashioned way.

Unfortunately I have a feeling Wilder will take a different path, one that avoids Klitschko. He's up for an elimination bout leading to a shot at the WBC title and the WBC likes to work alone and aren't about unification matches.

The WBC has become irrelevant in the heavyweight division in many ways since Wladimir the recognized champion doesn't carry it. It will just be a runner up belt and whoever holds it will not go after Klitschko.

 

Value lost to David Hate and should have lost to old, shot Holyfield...two guys he dwarfed. I think that supports my case as much as anything.

And no, I don't think Carnera was as good as Vits or would beat him. But his style was very similar disbarring how far along boxing has come.

 

Haye and Holyman would have KOed Carnera, probably with ease, yet Haye was too terrified to seriously fight vs "glass" Klitschko.

 

1. What are the numbers?

2. What is your source?

3. What is the analysis by weight class?

I don't think there were that many men who would qualify as a viable modern heavyweight 50 years ago.

"Skill" as in technical ability is probable the most overrated thing in boxing. Why? Because it often does not determine who wins and who loses. I don't think Ali was usually the most skilled participant in his fights. What made him champion were physical attributes; reflexes, speed, endurance and chin. Once those physical attributes started to decline with age Ali lost to an embarrassingly inexperienced Leon Spinks. Lennox Lewis handled a noticeably better skilled Evander Holyfield fairly well mainly because of physical attributes, size and strength. Having superior physical attributes doesn't make one successful on its own, some skill is still required, but not to the degree that some think. At one time Chris Byrd was supposedly the "best boxer" in the heavyweight division according to the boxing media but the "unskilled" Klitschko easily beat him, twice, either physical attributes or more important there or Klitschko's "skill" was seriously underrated. There's an old, old saying boxing trainers have said for generations; anybody with a rock-solid chin and a KO punch with either hand can be champion.

 

You have proof they would have KO'd him, right?

It take two to tango. Wlad never looked like he really wanted to fight himself unless you call tenetive and cautious wanting to fight.

 

Quite frankly, I think if time travel was possible an old timer vs modern heavyweight would look somewhat like the old timer was carefully managed and matched against limited opposition and when he was fighting the modern opponent he is suddenly fighting a man who can and does hit him back and this opponent he can't dominate on a physical level. It would be one of those mysterious incidents where the vaunted participant mysteriously seems to stop fighting in the middle of the fight.

I would anticipate Sonny Liston suddenly becoming a pacifist against Lennox Lewis. Liston would no longer have the advantage of superior physical attributes like the physical advantages he had over opponents of his era. Liston would not know how to suddenly fight like Chris Byrd etc. because he never had to fight like that in his day.

Boxers develop their style based on their physical attributes and limitations. Once you change the fact that the physical attributes they had in their generation would make them weak in the modern day, you change everything.

 

I have the same amount of proof that you have that Carnera is equal to Vital.