The current Heavyweight Division is one of the best eras ever

no I wont let you tell me what you want me to think. the point is about YOUR nonsense.


I am telling YOU not to make the idiot statement that you can judge ali and fraziers fitness by looking at their photos. don't try and run away from your failure, which you've just compounded by pretending its ME presenting the illogical argument - I've presented nothing. I am just telling you not to be a fool. If that's not manageable, so be it.

And never try and hide your lack of counter argument by pretending I don't 'like' fighters of today - the K2s are some of the most presentable champions in history.

 

Andrew, come on! What heavyweight today could you ever even imagine fighting at the pace Ali and Frazier did over 15 rounds? With all do respect to them, neither Klit has. Vits is known to throw a lot of punches, but has shown stamina problems in hi s two toughest fights. Against both Byrd and Lewis Vits was looking exhausted before ten rounds even. Wlad Brewster? Its a whole lot easier not to gas when your opponent is compliant while getting beat up. Its a whole other story when he's hell bent on winning at any cost and can actually hang.

 

So, in other words, while all objectively defined sports are better, boxing somehow isn't. Despite the fact that the size increase that has defined those other sports has occurred in HW boxing. Seriously, the delusion and irrationality in this is off the charts. In the court of law, I'd be terrified at the thought process of people like you in a jury. You'd convict or acquit based on whether you liked the looks of the defendant or victim, and ignore the evidence that's actually supposed to sway you.

Also, the simplification of tools/tactics is not an indication of its lessening, its an indication that other tools have become irrelevant with the higher quality of fighters now present. As far as being "a decade past their prime", again, you put the shoe on backwards. Prime is occurring later now than before because of the increased talent. Old time greats were shot at 35. Current greats rely don't need to rely as much on age dependent athleticism, and instead rely more on 1. Size 2. Power 3. Ringcraft and experience. All of which are greater now than before and all of which are either largely unaffected by age (1 and 2) or increased by age (3). Finally, I'd argue that a dominant champion defines the era. I'd rather have truly dominant champs like today, where they are clearly a step above everyone else, than earlier era where the champs are barely better than the competition. That's an indication the era is weak, as far as I'm concerned. So your arguments only help prove why the modern era is better H2H.

 

Good post.

 

You offer absolutely no rational arguments. You say that modern era fighters are fat, which is a physical, tangible quality. When I point out that the modern champs aren't, and past champs were, you used nontangible, subjective arguments to try to defend your position. In other words "I hate new, so they are fat, I like old, so they are in shape"

 

This is a great, great post! :good

 

Couple things, first, Vitali throws more punches than anyone. He set the record for jabs thrown in a fight and has one of the highest 12 round outputs in history. His fight against Arreola was in many ways his toughest, his pace was freaking off the charts against an iron chinned, lead fisted opponent. It just wasn't as obvious because unlike Ali Frazier etc, it wasn't a close fight. VK shouldn't be penalized for his dominance, though, pace is pace. As far as Byrd and Lewis, VK looked somewhat frustrated and hurt against Byrd, not particularly exhausted. Again Lewis, yes, but Lewis was more exhausted. Personally, that's one of the greatest fights in HW history, and when you have two gigantic human beings trading blows and leaning on each other, you will be exhausted much more quickly than at a lower size, i.e. Ali Frazier.

 

There are some key difference between boxing and other sports. In most professional sports, the average athlete is able to support himself just with playing the sport. They have access to all of the advanced nutrition and sports science available, and are often on the cutting edge of advances in sports science. That's why you see such rapid improvements in team sports.

Boxing is not like that. Boxing is still very much an individualistic pursuit. If you don't have access to advanced sports science, you're not going to be better than previous generations just because you came after them. It doesn't work that way. All but the wealthiest of boxers train exactly the same way boxers always have, and majority of them still have day jobs. They simply don't have access to the cutting edge facilities and practices that were responsible for the rapid evolution of other sports.

You seem to be under the impression that people are somehow born superior athletes to previous generations just because they came after. That's a gross misinterpretation of evolution. If anything, people are born LESS physically capable because of the poor diets and lifestyle choices of their parents.

But I'm tempted to think you're trolling after reading your belief that Wlad only having three offensive moves is somehow a sign of "evolution". You do realize that body shots, uppercuts and combination punching are very much in use today and critical parts of an effective arsenal, right? It's a little odd to argue that if WLAD doesn't have it, then it must be because it's an outdated punch.

You can make the argument that Wlad and Vitali could beat virtually any heavyweight in any previous era, and I wouldn't strongly disagree. But to say the division as a whole is at some sort of historic peak is laughable. A division is more than one person, or even two people. That's the reason why nobody has Marciano ranked above Ali.

 

In the compubox era Vits throws more punches, and with that you have to consider level of comp. You said Areola was iron chinned and lead fisted, yet a hadn't fought a top 10 contender to prove it and is 1-2 against top 10 fighters since.

And I disagree about "pace being pace". Getting hit more and still throwing tons of punches is much harder then controlling a fight over inferior comp. Its the equivalent of hitting a heavy bag and actually sparring...there's a big difference.

As far as Lewis-Vits goes....I think that just proves my point. I've said many time that I rank both bros highly h2h, but neither is a 15 round fighter....there are no 15 round fighters today. Stamina nowadays is second rate. If you need more proof just check out the TEN ROUND eliminator for Wlads next mandatory.

 

Paragraph 1-2. Again, let me translate. "I don't have any proof or rational arguments that boxing is different from objectively defined sports that are quantifiably better, so I will mention things that are irrelevant to the analysis and say that is proof it is better."

Paragraph 3. That's irrational jibberish. The main reason for the increase in athletic performance is raw population. The world has many more people in it, that means, many more tall people too. Do you think its more likely that there will be a dominant athlete among a group of 10 people, or among a group of 100? The population has grown and that is then #1 reason athletes have gotten better. In addition, the world has opened up more to boxing (and all sports) than before. We live in a more interconnected planet than ever before, diffusing training, bring in peak performers.

Paragraph 4. No, "evolution" whether in natural selection or in sports or other contexts, doesn't always mean more complex. Streamlining is a very real part of getting better. I'm not going to whip a science book out or anything, but seriously, look it up, its there. I'm not saying uppercuts etc are completely superfluous, just that Wlad has perfected a style which makes it superfluous for himself. And that that style is more effective than past champions in the HW division.

Paragraph 5: See response paragraphs 1-2.

 

Both Klits have bad resumes.

Also, the fact that a slow, clumsy oaf like Fury is a contender disproves the idea that this HW era is one of the best ever.

 

Notice how the only people that say this era is good are Klitshcko fan boys. They have to resort to making up bs to justify their hero's.

 

Paragraph 1: We're just not going to agree about competition, Jab. Fighting top 10 fighters is not the only way to determine achievement.
Paragraph 2: Fair point, but its not like Arreola wasn't hitting him. And what he was landing was more impactful than prior era contenders would have been capable of.
Paragraph 3: The sport has changed, its not a stamina thing, its realism that bigger people punch harder and drain you more, and that going past 12 is too potentially deadly now.

 

Uhm, sorry moron, you got it backwards, only golden era fan boys are saying its bad. I guess you could say I'm a fan of the K's, but certainly no "fan boy", since that implies a lack of self reflection only people like you are capable of. I have Lennox Lewis ranked higher than either K, and I'm quite open to the possibility of another HW coming along that will be better than any of them. True fanboys, like you, will always maintain that "Ali is the greatest ever, he'd beat anyone, past present future". That's the idiocy associated with fanboys, and that's exactly what I'd expect you to believe.

 

And you have even less logic to back up that belief as I would if I said, "Ali has a horrible resume, the fact that a handicapped midget like Frazier could beat Ali shows that that was one of the worst era's ever"