The Elite 4 Super Heavyweights: Prime H2H

Tyson had faster hands than Jack Dempsey and that is a part of what made him so dangerous.

Lets just set aside natural talent and asses them both on their technique.

Say that we equalise their weight reach, handspeed, chin, hairstyle etc.

Then I would submit that Dempsey becomes the more polished technician of the two.

On most parameters you could argue it either way but one parameter where Dempsey is better by a country mile is infighting ability, which might preove crucial in some of the matches being discussed.

 

I'd say Dempsey's footwork is better. They're very comparable in almost every manner imo. Tyson may just edge it for me in terms of combination punching, but then again i have much more footage of him in his prime than that of Dempsey so it's not really fair for me to evaluate on that basis.

 

Dempsey´s headmovement is better too. Tyson had rythm in his and thus could be timed, Dempsey had no rythm.

 

That's a very good observation

 

The 4 big men in question:

1. Lennox Lewis- 5-4-1
2. Riddick Bowe 1-9
3. Vitali Klitschko 3-7
4. Wladimir Klitschko 4-6

How do they perform against the following:

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Lewis- I lean towards a draw or close Holyfield decision....Bowe anther close Holy decision....Vitali another close holyfield decision....Wlad by decision...Holyfield 2-1-1

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- Lewis is able to withstand georges early onslought maybe even go down along the way, but take a decision (I would not be surprised to see george crack his chin and win by KO though)...Bowe takes a close decision....Vitali takes a close decision....Wlad gets stopped by George...george 1-3

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...Lewis might get dropped early, but I believe he comes back and gets a late stoppage or decison...Bowe, to wide open for dempsey, dempsey scores a decision or a mid round stoppage...Vitali stops dempsey in about 8...Wlad takes a nice decision or stops dempsey late...Dempsey 1-3

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...Drops Lewis in the 3rd, and takes a close decison...Bowe starts strong, and might even drop joe early but Joe comes on similar to mathis although Bowe is tougher and Joe takes a close decision or late stoppage...Vitali quits on his stool against the pressure after 8, but was ahead on the cards by a narrow margin...Wlad gets stopped in the 11 th...Frazier 4-0

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...Lewis, Joe takes a decision....bowe, Joe takes a decison...Vitali IMHO opinion has the best shot but loses a decision...Wlad gets stopped in 9..Louis 4-0

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...lewis, Holmes puts on a clinic and takes a comfortable decision...Bowe, anothe Holmes decison....Vitali another Holmes decison...Wlad anothe Holmes decison...Holmes 4-0

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...Lewis, scores a nice decision or late stoppage...Bowe gets roughed up and Tyson stops him in 8...Vitali takes a close decision...Wlad gets stopped in 4. Tyson 2-2

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...Lewis shocks the world with an upset decision...Bowe Ali takes a wide decision...Vitali after same early trouble Ali takes a close one...Wlad Ali squeeks by with a close decision. Ali 3-1

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...Lewis takes a close decision...Bowe- marciano takes a close decision or stops him late...Vitali Rocky takes a close decision...Wlad scores a surprise decision...Marciano 2-2

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- Lewis, Liston stops him in 5...Bowe liston stops him in 4...Vitali gets stopped in 8...and Wlad scores a close decision...Liston 3-1

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I think Marciano-Lewis goes the distance with lewis the victory on points. I don't think Lewis stops Marciano. He didn't stop other pressure fighters like Oscasio, holyfield and tua, and I think Lewis would be smart to just stay on the outside and box.

 

If that's the case, why was he much easier to hit on film? Tunney, Sharkey tattooed him all night, Carpentier put dempsey on rubber legs, Brennan landed quite a few on Jack, and crude amatuer Firpo knocked him down 3 times.

 

Sorry but do you really think Dempsey was at his best against Firpo, Tunney and Sharkey? Yep, punches landed on Dempsey. Punches land on every fighter who fights as offensive as Dempsey did. No surprise there. Dempsey worked on very small safety margins. He miscalculated at times or underestimated his oponents.
Tyson had less problems with that. Most of his opponents, or should I say all, in his prime didn´t come to win against him. But to survive. They didn´t even try to time him. When they did they actually had succes, see Douglas.

 

Lennox Lewis:

UD 12 Evander Holyfield
TKO 11 George Foreman
KO 9 Jack Dempsey
UD 12 Joe Frazier
UD 12 Joe Louis
SD 12 Larry Holmes
SD 12 Mike Tyson
L SD 12 Muhammad Ali
KO 12 Rocky Marciano
KO 3 Sonny Liston

Vitali Klitschko:

SD 12 Evander Holyfield
TKO 10 George Foreman
TKO 11 Jack Dempsey
UD 12 Joe Frazier
TKO 11 Joe Louis
SD 12 Larry Holmes
TKO 12 Mike Tyson
L UD 12 Muhammad Ali
TKO 7 Rocky Marciano
TKO 2 Sonny Liston

Wladmir Klitschko:

L TKO 9 Evander Holyfield
L KO 3 George Foreman
UD 12 Jack Dempsey
TKO 9 Joe Frazier
UD 12 Joe Louis
SD 12 Larry Holmes
L KO 2 Mike Tyson
L SD 12 Muhammad Ali
UD 12 Rocky Marciano
KO 5 Sonny Liston

Riddick Bowe:

UD 12 Evander Holyfield
TKO 11 George Foreman
TKO 9 Jack Dempsey
KO 12 Joe Frazier
TKO 10 Joe Louis
L SD 12 Larry Holmes
L KO 6 Mike Tyson
L UD 12 Muhammad Ali
TKO 10 Rocky Marciano
KO 5 Sonny Liston

 

:rofl

 

You can be normal.
You just have some irrational hate for Vitaly.

 

Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes have the best chances to win a decision.
As for the rest a stoppage is the best chance for a win. Those with the best chances are George Foreman, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson and Sonny Liston.

 

Irrational hate or not...vitali going 9-1 against those guys is pretty darn god hilarious

 

Well i can see him winning all of them. But he would be heavy underdog against Holmes in my mind(who never the less would lose against Wlad). And I actually can't see him knocking Liston in 2..... Thats kind of unreal. Vitaly is not that much of a puncher and liston had damn good Jaw in his prime.