The experts pick their top 10 P4P in '99

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Henke67, Dec 5, 2009.


Page 1 of 2
  1. Henke67

    Henke67 One of the 45% Full Member

    9,468
    376
    Feb 10, 2009
    Okay, I came across this book - "The 100 Greatest Boxers" by Mark Collings. The title pretty much gives away the books contents but his list is peppered with the top 10's of various experts.

    What's your opinion on these lists? What are the biggest surprises (aside from somw of these guys being labelled "experts")?

    The book was written in 1999 before Tito fought Oscar.

    Emanuel Steward;

    1. Ray Robinson
    2. Muhammad Ali
    3.Henry Armstrong
    4. Joe Louis
    5. Archie Moore
    6. Gene Tunney
    7. Marvin Hagler
    8. Thomas Hearns
    9. Roberto Duran
    10. George Foreman

    Angelo Dundee;

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Ray Robinson
    4. Harry Greb
    5. Willie Pep
    6. Stanley Ketchel
    7. Mickey Walker
    8. Johnny Dundee
    9. Benny Leonard
    10. Roy Jones Jnr

    Shelley Finkel;

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Ray Leonard
    4. Joe Louis
    5. Jack Johnson
    6. Jack Dempsey
    7. Roberto Duran
    8. Pernell Whitaker
    9. Joe Gans
    10. Stanley Ketchel

    Nigel Collins;

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Ray Robinson
    4. Henry Armstrong
    5. Jack Johnson
    6. Jack Dempsey
    7. Benny Leonard
    8. Harry Greb
    9. Rocky Marciano
    10. Archie Moore

    Adam Spelling (an "up-and-coming Lightweight" - this is when the expert well was starting to run dry)

    1. Ray Robinson
    2. Muhammad Ali
    3. Marvin Hagler
    4. Willie Pep
    5. Benny Leonard
    6. Roberto Duran
    7. Henry Armstrong
    8. Joe Louis
    9. Evander Holyfield
    10. Julio Cesar Chavez

    Colin Dunne (WBU Lightweight Champ)

    1. Roberto Duran
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Archie Moore
    4. Muhammad Ali
    5. Freddie Mills
    6. Henry Armstrong
    7. Ray Leonard
    8. Julio Cesar Chavez
    9. Roy Jones Jnr
    10. Evander Holyfield

    Nobby Nobbs (seriously) - Trainer and Manager

    1. Ray Robinson
    2. Muhammad Ali
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Archie Moore
    5. Ray Leonard
    6. Carlos Monzon
    7. Benny Lynch
    8. Gene Tunney
    9. Sandy Saddler
    10. Julio Cesar Chavez

    Audley Harrison;

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Ray Leonard
    4. Marvin Hagler
    5. Julio Cesar Chavez
    6. Mike Tyson
    7. George Foreman
    8. Jack Johnson
    9. Evander Holyfield
    10. Joe Louis

    Kevin Mitchell (Chief Sports Writer of The Observer);

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Benny Leonard
    4. Willie Pep
    5. Ray Leonard
    6. Jimmy Wilde
    7. Henry Armstrong
    8. Joe Louis
    9. Jack Dempsey
    10. Teofilo Stephenson

    Roy Jones Jnr;

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Ray Robinson
    3. Salvador Sanchez
    4. Ray Leonard
    5. Marvin Hagler
    6. Thomas Hearns
    7. Willie Pep
    8. Roberto Duran
    9. Wilfred Benitez
    10. Jersey Joe Walcott

    Where to begin eh? Thoughts? Best/Worst list?
     
    Henke67, Dec 5, 2009
    Henke67, Dec 5, 2009
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,986
    48,065
    Mar 21, 2007
    Absolutely crap just like I and everyone else knew they would be before I/they opened the thread.
     
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 5, 2009
    #2
  3. essexboy

    essexboy The Cat Full Member

    4,063
    4
    Jul 12, 2009
    What inspires them to come up with such bull**** lists though? It cant be lack of knowledge from guys like Steward and Dundee. Bias?
     
    essexboy, Dec 5, 2009
    essexboy, Dec 5, 2009
    #3
  4. Henke67

    Henke67 One of the 45% Full Member

    9,468
    376
    Feb 10, 2009
    That's what I don't understand. These guys know more about boxing than anyone here yet produce lists which are so open to ridicule.

    Or maybe they're right and everyone here is wrong?
     
    Henke67, Dec 5, 2009
    Henke67, Dec 5, 2009
    #4
  5. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

    7,766
    93
    Apr 6, 2007
    Trainers and fighters are just that - they don't, unlike you and I, sit down and study fighters, discuss their merits and weigh up their pros and cons.

    In boxing there's some 'basic knowledge' that floats round and round in boxing circles and it becomes consensus opinion. Ali or Robinson at #1, Louis, Dempsey and maybe Johnson somewhere in the top ten.

    To them, Henry Armstrong was merely a three weight champion and a footnote in history.
     
    Manassa, Dec 5, 2009
    Manassa, Dec 5, 2009
    #5
  6. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

    4,404
    3,876
    Jun 28, 2009
    At least these types of opinions confirm at least one of the reasons as to why boxing knowledge is generally on the decline these days. Why let facts ruin nice little myths?
     
    Tin_Ribs, Dec 5, 2009
    Tin_Ribs, Dec 5, 2009
    #6
  7. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,365
    1,033
    Sep 5, 2004
    How else are you going to keep the old timers relevant.

    Lets be fair Jack Dempsey and George Foreman have no business being in the top 10 p4p.
     
    ironchamp, Dec 5, 2009
    ironchamp, Dec 5, 2009
    #7
  8. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,935
    92
    Aug 21, 2008
    Absolutely, especially in the case of those two.

    Dundee was Ali's career-long trainer, and Pep was one of his admitted idols. Hearns was one of the most successful products of Steward's Kronk gym heyday. I doubt its a coincidence that those fighters rated so highly on those guys' lists.
     
    My2Sense, Dec 5, 2009
    My2Sense, Dec 5, 2009
    #8
  9. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,935
    92
    Aug 21, 2008
    This:
    :roll:
     
    My2Sense, Dec 5, 2009
    My2Sense, Dec 5, 2009
    #9
  10. Bioyhh

    Bioyhh Riot Dog Full Member

    170
    0
    Dec 2, 2009
    I guess Mr. Mitchell was inordinately impressed with Teo's demolition of Duane Bobick.
     
    Bioyhh, Dec 5, 2009
    Bioyhh, Dec 5, 2009
    #10
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    It's interesting to note that not one 'expert' picked Ezzard Charles in their top 10. Ezzard is a staple in every top 10 list you see today, but he was quite underrated over a decade ago.
     
    sweet_scientist, Dec 5, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Dec 5, 2009
    #11
  12. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,935
    92
    Aug 21, 2008
    Especially given that a guy Charles beat 3 out of 3 is in a number of those lists.


    BTW, I just noticed some clown put Freddie Mills in his top 10. :patsch
     
    My2Sense, Dec 5, 2009
    My2Sense, Dec 5, 2009
    #12
  13. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    401
    Jun 14, 2006
    What's most interesting to me...is how Leonard isn't in Angelo's list.
     
    Addie, Dec 5, 2009
    Addie, Dec 5, 2009
    #13
  14. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    At number 5 no less....
     
    sweet_scientist, Dec 5, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Dec 5, 2009
    #14
  15. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    Yeah that is interesting.... probably Angelo's attempt to show he's not biased.
     
    sweet_scientist, Dec 5, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Dec 5, 2009
    #15
Page 1 of 2