The fallacy of Ali's "prime"

Some very good points--(You really can look at this from different angles--and they're all valid!)

 

Got to disagree here Wlad was very over rated

 

One thing no one mentions... Ali was banned from the sport for over 3 1/2 years. Yes he could train thanks to Angelo . But every fighter knows there is nothing like fighting regularly physical fitness isn't everything.
When Ali returned it was obvious he had slowed, no more Ali shuffle but he was such a great fighter he adapted & was still a leading force in the game until that diabolical disabiitating disease took over him
Was the greatest thrill of my life in the sport to meet Ali & shake his hand. To me he will always be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE GREATEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He still did the Shuffle from time to time. He did it in the second Frazier and Spinks fights

 

The flip side to your argument is that you are trying to diminish his abilities and overstate threats to him.

He came back and beat Frazier in their series.

It's a sure thing you will claim but that wasn't Frazier at his best and he was never the same after FOTC. Well what about Ali, the loser of that fight? Against a harder puncher than himself? 15 rounds vs the meat grinder that was Frazier. Ali, the guy who missed 3 1/2 years of his career when peaking. The guy with more fights under his belt every time they met? The guy with half a decade more pro boxing behind him?

No-one is in here trying to claim Foreman was only a bee's dong of being his peak self tho. HUGE difference and chalk and cheese.

 

Well Ali called it after the fight himself.

“I think he would’ve whupped me quicker three years ago.”

I suppose if that isn’t evidence enough for someone, nothing ever will be.

 

Do you have a source on that?

EDIT: It's in this clip:

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But in this, he's saying that the 60's version would have beaten Foreman easier because of his superior speed (from about 8:30), and he is quoted in Hauser's book as saying that the 60's Ali would beat the Ali that fought Frazier and Foreman:

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We also have both Chuvalo and Patterson saying (might actually be in both Facing Ali and Hauser's book) that Ali was better in 1965/1966 than when they faced him again in 1972.

Then you have people like Dundee saying he was never as good after the exile. For example D'Amato and Joe Louis predicted Frazier to win because Ali wasn't the same after the lay-off.

Then it's also a bit strange how a softer 215 lbs Ali would be that much stronger than the 214,5 lbs and more cut version against Chuvalo in 1966.

And then we also have our own eyes to see him both before and after FOTC and compare to the 60's version.

So, yes, there is that post fight quote, but I'd say that the assesments from both Ali and others on the whole quite clearly weighs in the other direction.

 

It would absolutely kill you to say, “I stand corrected,” wouldn’t it? You’re someone else’s problem moving forward.

 

I found the source myself and posted it in an edit, wouldn't that pretty much equal your "I stand corrected", when I never said Ali didn't say those words? To ask for a source about something you haven't heard or seen before is just common practice around here. And I found it for you.

But you, on the other hand, won't of course acknowledge the many other quotes, including quotes from Ali himself, that contradicted the single one you had. Instead you choose to just respond with something snarky.

And that's why you're poor poster that probably won't be liked here. The knowledge of things you discuss have gaps that only are outmatched by your arrogance. A pretty classic Dunning Kruger effect.

 

Professional athletes can be grandiose or self effacing. Muhammad Ali could be both.

 

I reckon hypnotherapy would be a very nice, relaxed, work from home, little money earner.

Alas, I don’t think I myself can be hypnotised.

But, as a giver, not a taker, I’d smoke a pipe, wear a tweed jacket with elbow pads and act very serene and nod my head a lot.

Alternatively, I could wear hippie stuff, peace beads etc. - perhaps just customise myself to the age and demographic of the patient at hand.

I’m very resistant to potential 3rd party control even when I try to consciously allow it to some extent - though I know they say a hypnotist cannot make you breach your own moral codes and core personality.

Therefore, they can’t make you do or say anything you wouldn’t ordinarily do...so apparently everyone at least wants to cluck like a chicken....but we know the implanting of false memories, deliberate or accidental, can be a real thing....and a very destructive influence...

 

Leave that to the big tech companies.

 

You’re post just reminded/triggered me - like a post hypnotic cue.

A late night infomercial I saw last night
did embed on me whilst in a more vulnerable state - I didn’t realise it until just now.

The Pocket Hose Copper Bullet. I want me one of those mo fos. They look so cool. I want one in my very own pocket...hello, ladies...

One testimonial claimed it be to be a “game changer” in the world of hoses - and that lady worked in a nursery, experienced in and with all types of hoses - so she would know.

She didn’t say if she had ever sucked a golf ball through a hose though. I would’ve been interested to hear about that. It would’ve enticed me even more into buying the product.

There’s no way they greased her palm to parrot from a script. She was 100% genuine.

Game changer? Certainly looked to be the case through my tired/wearied eyes and brain.

I always wanted to wear a hat and pinstripe suit and take my own hose around with me.

Puggy Bear?

 

If you believe the boxer/slugger/swarmer dynamic Joe and Kenny were always going to be tough outs, especially the former.